REM - Out of TIme · Riffology: Iconic Rock Albums Podcast

Chris0:00 Hey, I can't find nothing on the radio. Yo, turn to that station. Hello, mate.

Neil0:18 Hello. You're right. All right, Sunday, we got all the right sweets, mate.

Chris0:22 Well, they're not. They're different sweets, but I think. I think they might be better. We're flying tonight, aren't we?

Neil0:27 So we've got jelly tops, tangy, made with fruit juice.

Chris0:31 I mean, fruit juice.

Neil0:32 Clearly they're not made with fruit juice. I don't know what they're made from. Round trees. Fruit juice isn't solid, so they can't be made of that.

Chris0:38 Yeah.

Neil0:38 And we've got green fruit pestles, Godfrey Y, which I quite like. It tells me that one packet.

Chris0:43 Yeah.

Neil0:44 It tells me there's 71 calories per serving and 84 calories per serving. Although it's probably like 10 servings or something.

Chris0:51 Yeah.

Neil0:52 Oh, seven sweets is one serving. Who are they having on? Who sat in a room? Who did that? Yeah, I know.

Chris0:59 Seven sweets.

Neil1:00 Seven is completely normal to have in one go.

Chris1:03 Can we just have. Have a moment of celebration for the tangy jelly Tots? Yeah, they are tangy.

Neil1:09 They're dead good, aren't they?

Chris1:09 They're tangy, yeah.

Neil1:10 Yeah, yeah, they're dead good. I like them a lot. Yeah, you kind. I kind of feel like there should be some kind of EU rule which says they're not allowed. Do you know? I mean, they've got that effect.

Chris1:18 Yeah, they have. They're like. Yeah, these shouldn't be allowed.

Neil1:20 Yeah, they're like.

Chris1:20 They used to have that nuclear waste. They were sour.

Neil1:22 Yeah. They've got that feel about them where someone's going to come on the telly in. In two years time and go, these will kill you.

Chris1:28 You should.

Neil1:29 Do you know what I mean? But they're my favorite. What do you mean? I can't do that anymore. It's rubbish.

Chris1:36 And we need to thank Lindsay.

Neil1:37 Do we?

Chris1:38 Because she sent us the sweets.

Neil1:39 I don't know where they are.

Chris1:40 They're in here.

Neil1:41 I have no idea where they are. You sent me a photograph of the said sweets, but I. I don't know the last time. Lindsay, I have to remind you, what happened to the sweets the last time Lindsay gave us sweets. Yeah.

Chris1:51 Oh, my children at them.

Neil1:52 Your children ate them.

Chris1:54 So this time they. They were delivered straight here to the studio. She used the studio, but then my mum found them.

Neil2:00 Oh, God.

Chris2:01 And then my mum. Because it had my name on it.

Neil2:03 Yeah.

Chris2:03 Just put them safe and they've probably

Neil2:06 been here for weeks.

Chris2:07 They're probably here for weeks and so my mum put them safe in the box in the corner.

Neil2:12 Yeah.

Chris2:12 And then. And then. And then Gemma messaged me with a photo going, oh, there's this box. What is it?

Neil2:17 But it's a wtf.

Chris2:20 And showed me the box and she said, why is that? Why is there loads of sweets? And then I had a little dance.

Neil2:25 Yeah.

Chris2:25 Because I realized. Oh, they're. They're.

Neil2:27 The sweet dance. Yeah.

Chris2:28 Yeah. And they're. They're actually Lindsay very graciously, as ordered us or will send us six packets of black. Six packets of black and red fruit

Neil2:38 pastels base on that. If I had a box of them in my house, I would. It wouldn't take much, like, it wouldn't take much to nudge me over the edge and I just bury my face and just maybe have a bath with them.

Chris2:48 I'm here. I'm like here today with you.

Neil2:50 Yeah.

Chris2:51 And I'm feeling like the Tanky Jelly Tots may. There's a bit in head there. They're different. They're a different experience, but I think they're actually equally as good as the red and blacks.

Neil3:00 They're good, aren't they? They are nice.

Chris3:01 I'm very happy with it.

Neil3:02 They are good.

Chris3:04 Out of time. We are. I'm. I'm Chris.

Neil3:06 What? What? What?

Chris3:07 Yeah.

Neil3:07 What'? Yeah, we are doing Out Of Time, which is called out of Time because they ran out of time.

Chris3:12 Yeah.

Neil3:12 To name the album. And the record company, Warner Brothers rang

Chris3:15 them and went, out of Time.

Neil3:16 Look, if you don't give us a name, we can't release it. And they went, oh, we're out of time. And then they just use that. Yeah, I like that.

Chris3:23 I like that.

Neil3:24 You know, I mean, you could just imagine doing like, I. In my mind, they're in the studio, they're just chilling, and the phone rings and somebody calling the album. Someone's like, oh, it's the Warner Brothers gun. They kind of just, you know, covering the hat. American. Anyway, they kind of COVID the hand as if they. As if no one could hear. Kind of Warner Brothers. And they're all just like going, oh, good. Just. Just whatever. Just tell them. Tell them to get lost. And then. And then they just. Oh, get out of time. Yeah, that'll do. And, you know, none of them kind of thinking they're actually going to do it. No, that's it. That is it. And I have to be honest, it's the worst album cover. I think it's awful. It's just like. You know what I mean? It's just A big yellow sticker with REM in the middle.

Chris4:04 Yeah.

Neil4:04 And I think, like, this stuff behind it, like, there's kind of like an ocean thing going on behind it. You can't see any of that. It's just the big yellow sticker. There's a whole stuff online about people saying it. It reminds them of, like, Denny's. Denny's. Yeah. And it's. It just doesn't look. I don't know, it's. It's bizarre. Now, REM album covers typically are a little bit interesting.

Chris4:24 Yeah, yeah.

Neil4:26 And that one's just not. It's a bit. Bit bizarre. I just, like, stood out, though.

Chris4:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. It look. It just. If you see it in. In a pile, you know, when you.

Neil4:36 Yeah, when you're flipping. I, I. Sometimes if I've got, like, Leo has to go and have his braces inspected.

Chris4:41 Yeah.

Neil4:42 At. I swear that's a massive con. I just. I just think it's a money maker. You just turn up and they just go, yeah, yeah, it's fine.

Chris4:49 200 quid.

Neil4:49 I've just tightened it or whatever. What? What do you mean? Can I tighten it? Yeah, I've got a screwdriver. Anyway, so we go and do that. Well. And we tighten Leo's braces and then. Because there's a HMV near where he has his braces tightened.

Chris5:04 Yeah.

Neil5:04 I can't resist going to never know. You know we're going to have a Costa.

Chris5:08 Yeah, yeah.

Neil5:09 Leo likes that. It's getting a bit grind 15 now.

Chris5:11 Okay. So that's a cool thing.

Neil5:13 So we go and have a Costa.

Chris5:14 I had a thing because my dip, my lot did, and they got the app.

Neil5:17 Yeah.

Chris5:17 So they get the free beans and then as they build up their beans, they get a free coffee at the end of it. And I was like, you spend so much money on this.

Neil5:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris5:27 Like, it's really expensive.

Neil5:29 It's crazy. We go once every eight weeks.

Chris5:31 Yeah.

Neil5:32 And it's like 20 quid.

Chris5:33 Yeah.

Neil5:33 No, Yeah. I swear, it didn't used to be.

Chris5:35 It wasn't 20 quid. It's like three quid.

Neil5:37 Yeah. I think when he started the brace inspection, it was like a lot less, about half.

Chris5:41 Maybe they're in cahoots. Maybe that's what the braces people. So the braces people ring the Costa and they go, they're coming, they're coming,

Neil5:47 but put the prices up. But anyway, the thing is, around the corner, there's the hmv.

Chris5:52 Yeah.

Neil5:53 And I think it. So where are we talking about Here.

Chris5:55 Derby.

Neil5:56 No, Burton.

Chris5:57 Oh, in.

Neil5:57 Burton in.

Chris5:59 Oh, in the octagon.

Neil6:00 Yeah. I might get him confused. Yeah, I think it's the octagon.

Chris6:03 Yeah. No, HMV is the octagon.

Neil6:04 Is it? Yeah, yeah. Do you know, I remember there. Do you remember Beatty's.

Chris6:08 Yes.

Neil6:09 Department store.

Chris6:10 Yeah. On the right as you walked in.

Neil6:11 We used to go in there as students.

Chris6:13 Yeah.

Neil6:13 And just have a wander around and literally someone would come and follow you. So convinced, you know, I mean, wasn't

Chris6:18 it mostly women's clothes? Yeah, that'll be why they were following.

Neil6:22 We used to go wander around. We used to go and wander around in the. Like the lingerie. Just used to go wander around. They had like a section in there for like. Like little figurines and stuff.

Chris6:34 Yeah, yeah.

Neil6:34 So we were just. We were just bored. Just go in there and have a wander around.

Chris6:37 I was in, like, them. Those ornaments that.

Neil6:39 Yeah.

Chris6:40 They have. Where they're like. They're like kind of like faceless things. Cuddling.

Neil6:44 Yeah, that kind of thing. Or like little birds or like. I know, like all kinds of Smurfs in there. There are all kinds of. So we were just going. I wonder what crap they got in here today. They'd be like, oh, it's the students. And then they would. Someone will come and watch you.

Chris7:00 Yeah, yeah.

Neil7:00 I'm like, we're not going to nick anything. It's rubbish. Get lost. But anyway, now there's a. Now there's a HMV next to it.

Chris7:06 Yeah.

Neil7:06 So we go in there.

Chris7:07 I went in there into hmv.

Neil7:09 Yeah.

Chris7:10 And I had a moment where I was like. Because I used to work in music retail back in the day when. Music retail.

Neil7:14 Music shop.

Chris7:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they sold CDs and that, where they actually sold things. And I walked into hv, I'm like, I don't even know what this is now. No, it's just like T shirts and books and mugs.

Neil7:26 Yeah. T shirts and book. And then they've got like a little vinyl bit and they do still have, like a little CD bit.

Chris7:29 Yeah.

Neil7:30 The thing is also expensive. Yeah, it's bonkers.

Chris7:33 Yeah.

Neil7:34 They want, like, 40 quid.

Chris7:35 Yeah. For a record.

Neil7:37 Even Amazon don't charge 40 quid. And all you got to do is you go on to, like, Discogs. You can buy them for tenor. It's like stupid. Absolutely stupid. Do you know what I mean? And it's so, like, they'll do. Occasionally they do stuff a little bit cheaper so that you can get. You can get them for. They're like. So you can have.

Chris7:55 You, like, buy three for something.

Neil7:57 Yeah. For 66 quid or whatever.

Chris8:00 I'm not spending 66 quid on records like that.

Neil8:02 I just think, like, that's a lot of money. It's like, for me, this is like 10, 15 quid and this is something super special.

Chris8:08 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil8:09 Like, it was the anniversary of A Boy Named Goo this week.

Chris8:13 Yeah.

Neil8:13 And I really like that.

Chris8:14 Yeah.

Neil8:15 And their albums I've listened to over and over and over and over again. And I've got one copy of it.

Chris8:19 Yeah.

Neil8:20 But I could totally be tempted for another one. Right. But you think for something like that, I kind of.

Chris8:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil8:26 But, like, I don't know. I'm not paying 40 quid for something that. No, I don't. I mean, it's a bit mad.

Chris8:32 Yeah.

Neil8:32 So. And I get that they've got retail costs and all that. I mean, you know, retail stores are mega expensive.

Chris8:36 Yeah.

Neil8:38 Like, I don't know who's got the. If HMV is still in business in a few years with that kind of those prices, I can't imagine who can afford to go and buy them. Do you know what I mean?

Chris8:47 No.

Neil8:48 Even brand, like a brand new record will come out and so, you know, you kind of expect like 20 quid or a little bit more than 20 quid. Maybe 25 quid for brand. You have a brand new one with the shiny splatters and.

Chris8:58 Yeah, yeah.

Neil8:59 And I bought the new Megadeth record. And that I think was only 25 quid. 26 quid. HMV. 40 quid.

Chris9:05 Yeah.

Neil9:06 Do you know what I mean? It's like, if you're listening, Mr. HMV.

Chris9:10 Yeah.

Neil9:11 You just. You, you.

Chris9:12 You're not helping, are you?

Neil9:14 Ain't gonna happen, is it anyone? No one's gonna do that. You just go on the Discogs. That's what I do. That's what I said to Dan. You know Dan, who doesn't exist.

Chris9:21 Yes, yeah, yeah.

Neil9:22 So I remember speaking to Dan and Dan, where do we get vinyl from? And he's like, oh, well, you can go here, you can go there. But he said, I just buy it from Discogs.

Chris9:27 Yeah.

Neil9:28 I said, I don't know what that is. So I signed into Disc and it's brilliant. People sell your records. It's decorated. Yeah, I do loads of that. I forgot where we were going.

Chris9:36 REM at a time. I liked it. I thought it was weird. I thought it was a very strange record. But I enjoyed it. But it wasn't what because the thing is with this record is you've got Shiny Happy People. Yeah. And you've got Losing My Religion.

Neil9:51 Yeah.

Chris9:52 And you've got Arguably Radio Song.

Neil9:54 Yeah.

Chris9:55 And a couple of others singles. Yeah. You kind of know what they are. And then. But then you've got these other ones where it's like. Like improvisations, instrumentals.

Neil10:03 You say that Losing My Religion's got no chorus.

Chris10:05 No. And it's five minutes long. And it's a single.

Neil10:07 Not a single mandolin. It's not a single.

Chris10:10 No.

Neil10:10 It's like if you. If you. If you pitch that, if you. You wander into the Warner. Warner Brothers and you've got. I've got my album, you know, And I know you gave us, like. Like, I know a million quid to go make it.

Chris10:21 Yeah. Yeah. Boom.

Neil10:22 Yes. We got.

Chris10:22 Yeah.

Neil10:23 I can imagine them kind of going. I'm not really sure about that. I'm not sure. I'm not sure where the Poppy.

Chris10:28 Yeah.

Neil10:28 Because they're quite like a. I don't know. They are quite a poppy band. So, like, what? Like, where's this fit and who's buying this?

Chris10:35 Yeah, yeah.

Neil10:36 I can imagine the record label was super confused.

Chris10:38 Yeah.

Neil10:39 I can imagine they saw shiny happy people, B52s.

Chris10:42 Yeah.

Neil10:43 You know, it's got. It's got. It's interesting kind of. It's interesting song. It's quite got beats. Quite happy. It's quite cool. Weird, like, timing change in. In fact, in both of those timing changes halfway through which. Which I. I quite like. I quite like that kind of bizarre. Bizarre timing. But. Yeah, I can totally imagine, like a dude in a suit just frowning.

Chris11:07 Yeah.

Neil11:08 I mean, just like, what is this?

Chris11:09 What are you giving us here?

Neil11:10 What's happening? I don't get it. Yeah. I mean, I kind of want, like, you know, I want Crush. I want. Yeah, yeah. Do Me the. Do Me the ones he did before.

Chris11:18 Yeah, yeah. But. But the. The strange thing is in that, even though. I mean, those. Those singles did it, didn't they? Those singles kind of got the. Got the main. Got your mainstream friends, like, in the band. But they were a cult. They were. They were a cult band up until this point. Yeah. This. This album said in the mainstream. And then, of course, you know, following this, you got Automatic and you got, you know, Everybody Hurts and Night Swimming and songs like that on automatic. But. But, you know, but they already got this.

Neil11:46 They'd already got this stuff on automatic. Was written. It was written here, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. It all kind of came out at the Same time. Which is. Which I think is interesting. Yeah, the single. It's interesting. It's a product of its time and I think it resonated really strongly with people at the time. Yeah, but I think it's fascina. It still resonates.

Chris12:03 Yeah.

Neil12:03 Do you know what I mean? How it still resonates? Like no one knew. Like shiny happy people. No one really knew. What was that? Was, you know, were they making fun of somebody? Was it, you know, what was that about? Meet me in the crowd People, people Throw your love around Love me, love me Take it into town Happy, happy Put it in the ground where the flowers grow Gold and silver shine. Shiny happy People holding shiny, happy People holding shiny happy all round Everyone around Love them, love them Put it in your hands Take care take it there's no time to cry Happy, happy Put it in your heart where tomorrow shines Gold and silver shines. Shining happy people Sh. It's brilliant. It's really difficult for anybody who've ever done this. I think it's completely different from anything that's been done before. There are definitely some pop elements on it. A lot more than we've had, maybe on the last few records. It's a real diverse record. There are some incredibly pop songs and there are some dark slow songs. It's going to be a shock for a lot of people. I think, if anything, we went on this long tour. It was nine months, which is a long time to be traveling and it's very difficult to write new songs. We came up with two songs, three songs. One was a throwaway in that much time period. And so I think when we got home, got rested a little bit, we were all dying to get this new stuff out. So we went in and wrote 28 songs. It was the first record we'd written, really, where we actually started the songs, the foundation, with keyboards and bass and guitar, rather than working in a keyboard part later, which is the way we always used to do it. So it's given a different flair to the record. We have everybody in the band playing other than their own instruments, their main instruments, you know, Bill on guitar and Peter on mandolin and me on keyboards and all kind of stuff like that. In that sense, it's a very big departure. A lot of strings, which we've never had, some pretty serious strings. Usually the only strings we've had before were like a little four piece maybe. And we've got a full nine piece string section on a bunch of this stuff, you know, I don't ever know. We don't know what we're doing ever. I mean, we just start writing songs and then the songs are done. And this time we wrote a bunch of songs that just seemed. Well, first of all, it seemed less of a guitar record. So there's a lot more emphasis on keyboards and vocals, strings. And I personally wanted to make kind of a more baroque sounding record for a long time. We started writing these songs that we noticed it basically before the last record that started to sound alarmingly similar to stuff that we'd already done. And we said, well, we got to get away from this. Plus actually playing your own instrument. After a while it's like, let's move on. Let's do something exciting and challenging. So we would sit down in the studio and Peter would have a mandolin in his hand. And Bill would pick up the acoustic guitar and I'd sit at the organ. And we wrote several songs like that and all that. But we still don't have a name for the record yet. Every record we've ever had, the name just occurs real early. And it makes sense because it kind of says what the songs are all about. But I think the songs are. So nothing links them really, either lyrically or musically that nobody knows what to call it. We were thinking of calling it Willful Obscurity, but that was too willfully obscure. We were thinking about calling it More Protestant Work Ethic. We were thinking about calling it Pomegranate, but that's a little too stipian. I think we're thinking about not calling it anything, just leaving it blank. Because usually every time we've had a record before, the title has popped up at some point and everyone goes, yay, that's the one. And we're not getting that with this one. So we're just thinking maybe it doesn't need a title. I'm really happy with the songwriting. It's one of the first records we've ever done where I walked in before. We laid down a note and just was really pleased with the songs. Pop history, you're looking at it. This is it. Losing My Religion gets taken out of context all the time. Do you know what I mean? That seems to get like this. I guess the meanings that Michael Stipe gives to and talks about it seems. I don't know, it's. It's. It's a bit. I think it's a little bit.

Chris18:53 Yeah.

Neil18:54 People.

Chris18:54 People take it as the. It's the shift away from organized religion. That's what they sort of see it as. And that's not what the Song's about.

Neil19:00 But then. And you hear that in interviews. And then there's a lovely bit. I read about Michael Stipe talking about this saying. It's kind of like a Southern thing. You know, it's like. It's just a. It's like something you say, like, kind of. I'm not. You know, I'm. I'm not. I'm not with it. It doesn't mean it's not. It isn't like, deep. The. The common usage of it, where they got the phrase from was just like, you know, I'm losing my marbles.

Chris19:28 Yeah.

Neil19:28 I mean, it's kind of this kind of statement. And then obviously, was. Was. They took that phrase and then took it to. To mean something else. But there's a lovely bit where. Where he says, I. I don't ever want to explain what the. You purposely write these things. And they're purposely not like nails down. I mean, I'm like. I'm not talking about my cat vomiting on the carpet. You know what I mean? It's not a descript thing for me. It's kind of.

Chris19:54 Yeah, so you take. You interpret it how you want it. Whatever it means to you, it's fine kind of thing. Yeah.

Neil19:58 I do remember that Peter Buck was

Chris20:00 tired of being a guitar hero, and

Neil20:02 he didn't want to play electric guitar. So he started experimenting with different acoustic instruments and folk instruments, including the mandolin. Somewhere in my basement, not far from here, is a box with cassettes in it. And in that box with a cassette in it, on the cassette is Losing My Religion, instrumental that Peter recorded on a mandolin. From beginning to end, exactly as the song is. It's bigger. It's bigger than you and you are not me the links that I will go to the distance in your eyes oh, no, I've said too much I set it up that's me in the corner that's me in the spot like losing my religion Trying to keep up here and I don't know if I can do it oh, no, I'm sad to Too much I haven't said enough I thought that I heard you laughing I thought that I heard you sing I think I thought I saw you try Every whisper every waking hour I'm choosing my confessions Trying to keep eye on you Like a hurt lost and blind oh, no, I said too much I set it up Consider this Consider this the hint of the century Consider this Slip that brought me to my knees failed what if all these fantasies Come flailing around Now I've said too much I Thought that I heard you laughing I thought that I heard you

Chris23:06 sing

Neil23:10 I think I thought I saw you try. That was just a dream that was just a dream that's me in the corner. That's me in the spot. Life losing my religion Trying to keep up you and I don't know if I can do it I'm now sad too much I haven't sad enough I thought that I heard you laughing I thought that I heard you sing I think I thought I saw you try that was just a dream Try cry why try that was just a dream Just a dream Just a dream dream. The song was complete pretty much when he brought it in. Personally, I worked and worked and I tried to come up with bass lines. I tried all these different things and I couldn't. Couldn't come up with something I thought fit. So for some reason it popped into my head, what would John McVie do? So I started approaching it as though I were John McVie. And that's where the bass line came from. Very simple, but there's just enough of a weird note to make it slightly disturbing and unsettling. But it works, so I owe John McVie for that one. And a lot of it is improvised on this record, particularly starting from, you know, lots of stuff is. Single take. Yeah, lots of stuff is improvised. And I think, you know, when you talked about that, kind of almost like jazz. Yeah, stuff. There's elements of that here where, you know, you are. And we've talked about this a lot in the past, but this is a point in time of this group, these people, and what was important to them and what was on their mind at the point this record was made. Yeah, yeah. You know. Do you know what I mean? It's not something that could be redone.

Chris26:02 No, no, no. It was where they were because. Well, because they. They'd just come off tour, they'd got some songs they were working on, but they were. They were almost like at a bit of a. A pause point where they were like, fight. They were figuring out who they were and that sort of stuff. They all. They all sort of tried new instruments out. Like, that's where the kind of mandolin came from,

Neil26:23 the back of Green, wasn't it? So they did Green and then went over a massive tour.

Chris26:27 Yeah, yeah.

Neil26:27 And then came back and were like.

Chris26:29 And the first bit, even, like, Michael Stott wasn't really even like, there. No. You know, he was kind of. He went on. Went off tour with, I think, Billy Bragg. I think it was.

Neil26:38 Yeah.

Chris26:38 And. And so the guys Were kind of writing and recording and doing stuff, and then he kind of hear the instrumentals and then write the words to that. And. But the other one. Is that. Is that. Is it. Mike Mills does quite a few of the vocals. Lead vocals on this.

Neil26:52 Well, they all switched. Interview. They were all kind of like, we're a bit bored. We're all doing the same thing.

Chris26:57 Yeah.

Neil26:58 Let's just do a. Let's just do different stuff. And like, you say there's the mandolin being played.

Chris27:03 But the. But the interesting one is that our, like, Michael Stipes voice is the quintessential REM Sound.

Neil27:12 Yeah.

Chris27:12 So to imagine somebody else taking the lead vocal.

Neil27:15 Yeah.

Chris27:15 Is that still R.E.M. you know?

Neil27:17 Well, this is. This. I kind of think you could do this with Pink Floyd to some degree. You kind of got the Roger Waters.

Chris27:23 Yeah.

Neil27:24 Stuff. Right. You can know that. But it's bizarre. Like, as a casual Pink Floyd family, before I kind of fell in love with them and got really kind of deep into Pink Floyd, I didn't realize there were two different fingers.

Chris27:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Neil27:35 You know what I mean? I just kind of float along with it. And I was like, oh, yeah, this is cool. Oh, yeah, that's cool, too.

Chris27:39 Yeah.

Neil27:39 And it's only. Can you like. Oh, no. Well, then, you know, that's.

Chris27:42 Yeah, that's.

Neil27:44 Oh, yeah. So it is. Yeah. But I know that sounds daft, but I. I do wonder if often if it fits. Well, do you know what I mean? If that second vocal or the vocal change kind of fits the song and stuff. I don't know. I think people just. Unless you're analyzing it, I mean, as a musician, you're going to analyze things and be like, oh, yeah, I can see what they're doing here.

Chris28:06 Yeah.

Neil28:08 I think often it's like casual listeners that might just. You know what I mean? Just. Just float over the top of people. I don't think they are going to pay that much attention to.

Chris28:17 No.

Neil28:18 Like, the key changes and, like, the weird timing changes and stuff.

Chris28:21 Yeah.

Neil28:21 I find that stuff really interesting because I find it really difficult if I. If I try and play and the timing changes.

Chris28:27 Yeah.

Neil28:27 It's like I tap my foot and. No, it's still doing.

Chris28:30 Yeah.

Neil28:32 I'm not with this. My body's not really caught yet. So I find that stuff really fascinating that people can.

Chris28:38 There's some songs like 1979 by the smashing pumpkins.

Neil28:41 Yeah.

Chris28:41 I can't find beat one in the. In the. Like. And this is about. This is a band that I love.

Neil28:46 Yeah.

Chris28:46 I've heard the song hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times and it's got this kind of like electronic beat at the beginning before the main song kicks in that kind of fades in. Yeah, I can't find beat one. I can't. I cannot find beat one in that. In that groove.

Neil28:59 It's there that is.

Chris29:01 It's bizarre. Like. Yeah. I've been listening to the song for 20 years and I still can't do it.

Neil29:06 Well, I mean I'm not going to be able to do it. So that's this, this album was released in 1991 and I remember this time in my. I was quite into to hi Fi and. And you know, I guess it was interesting because I was studying physics a lot. I did a lot of maths trying to figure out how acoustics and sound works. And this. And the one that came after Automatic for the people. Yeah, we would use these all the time.

Chris29:38 I haven't been saying this before these because they'd sound. Yeah, everything.

Neil29:42 And I think it's interesting we. We'd use automatic More, More than this one.

Chris29:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil29:49 But you, you were guaranteed a copy of it. You didn't need to take it with you. So if you went into any like audio shop, they got it. Yeah. That you wouldn't have. Yeah. There'd be stuff you would take.

Chris29:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil30:00 You know, I would always take Back in Black.

Chris30:02 Yeah.

Neil30:03 There's a bunch of other albums I would, I would take as well. But this is one that like me and my met Russell would go. And this is one that we would often listen to but we would never, never ever take it with us because they'd always, they'd always have it and they'd often have it on in the shop when you, when you went in. And I think it's, there's a. It's, you know, the product. I don't know it's the production necessarily because Scott lit did it.

Chris30:25 Yeah.

Neil30:27 Now Scott's obviously super talented but there's something weird about it in the fact that it just sounds. Sounds good everywhere.

Chris30:37 Yeah.

Neil30:37 You can listen to it on like cheap earbuds. Yeah, sounds right.

Chris30:40 Yeah.

Neil30:41 Yeah. But you can listen to it on like you know, 20 grands worth of hi Fi. Sounds right. Let's do it in the car. Sounds right. Do you mean it's and it's. It's and it's. You would, you would think every album does that, but they just don't like some albums don't translate like that that well. Yeah, they sound like some sound like the. The more expensive the hi Fi gets, the worse they sound.

Chris31:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil31:04 And some of the opposite. Right. Some. Some. Some kind of grow into that. That space. And it's often not the ones you think. Like, there are albums like Appetite for Destruction, I think sounds phenomenal on quite expensive gear, and you probably wouldn't expect it to.

Chris31:17 Yeah.

Neil31:18 It's not the kind of album where you would imagine somebody agonized over, you know, the. The layering and the sound stage and stuff in the studio, but they clearly. Clearly did.

Chris31:27 Yeah.

Neil31:28 But, like, this one is super weird. It's got, like. It's got. It's got this kind of thing, this ability where it just like. I mean, a Back in Black is another good example where that just sounds. Sounds good everywhere.

Chris31:40 Yeah, yeah.

Neil31:42 But it has like, almost like a different. Like a different voice.

Chris31:46 Yeah.

Neil31:47 If I put. I listen to this with headphones on. I was down in London on Wednesday and. And I listen to. I put my AirPods in and listen to it on the train on. On the way down to London. Put the. You know, you put your noise cancelling on.

Chris32:02 Yeah, yeah.

Neil32:02 And it takes a different. You mean, it feels. Feel. It's like a different record.

Chris32:06 Yeah.

Neil32:06 As you. As you listen to it. Yeah, It's. I don't. There are very few bands that do that for me, I think. And not all of the R.E.M albums do as well, but certainly this one and an automatic. An automatic D. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very. If you. If you like a bit of Audiophilia, apparently. This is an interesting thread to go off the kids.

Chris32:29 Yeah.

Neil32:30 You know the kids today.

Chris32:31 Yeah.

Neil32:32 They're not doing hi Fi.

Chris32:33 No.

Neil32:34 So it's dying off.

Chris32:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil32:36 So, you know, like. You know, like we have two speakers.

Chris32:39 Yeah. They're the one. The young.

Neil32:41 The younglings today, they don't do that.

Chris32:43 No.

Neil32:44 They'll often have no speakers.

Chris32:45 Yeah.

Neil32:46 And they'll listen to things off of like Alexa or a HomePod pod.

Chris32:49 Yeah.

Neil32:49 Or they'll use the EarPods or whatever. Or they'll listen to. On their phone.

Chris32:53 Yeah.

Neil32:53 Or in the car.

Chris32:54 Yeah.

Neil32:54 But they won't have a. An unhi.

Chris32:57 Yeah. Yeah.

Neil32:59 And they're saying that within 10 years. Yeah. 60 of the current people that, like, would be hi Fi aficionados won't be there anymore.

Chris33:10 Dead.

Neil33:15 But in that side. It's a thing for me. It's like. What? I don't get it.

Chris33:21 No.

Neil33:22 What. I mean, you can't. If you're listening to this on, like a potato. Right. In tellers. Yeah, because that, that would really annoy me. I kind of, like. I don't know, I think that there's nothing, like, for me, I love, like, just like Mondays is. Is a good example for me. I'll. I'll. I'll get to work in the morning. I'll be a bit tired because we're up quite late.

Chris33:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil33:44 I'll do my emails, I'll do my things. Speak. I have my first couple of meetings in the morning and I'll kind of do my notes and stuff. And then usually about 11 o', clock, I'll pick up, I'll grab a record and I'll just be like, right. I kind of breathe, put my record on and it's just, you know, do you know what me just kind of fills the space. Makes me feel a little bit. I feel.

Chris34:01 Yeah.

Neil34:01 Okay.

Chris34:02 I've had a memory.

Neil34:03 Have you?

Chris34:04 Yeah. A memory of being at college.

Neil34:06 Yeah.

Chris34:07 Because so my college story.

Neil34:10 Yeah.

Chris34:10 Is I kind of did it a few times. Oh, because.

Neil34:13 Oh, you did college a few times.

Chris34:14 Yeah. I wasn't really very driven.

Neil34:18 What did you do? What were the names of the things you did at college?

Chris34:20 So I start. I did performing arts to start with.

Neil34:22 Yeah.

Chris34:22 So I learned. I learned about that.

Neil34:23 I don't know what that is.

Chris34:24 So drama. Drama and music.

Neil34:26 I don't know what drama is.

Chris34:28 Dancing and those sorts of things.

Neil34:29 I can't imagine you dancing.

Chris34:30 Yeah. Oh, no, I did a good dance. It was basically cartwheels.

Neil34:35 Forward roles. Yeah, I can do forward roles.

Chris34:37 Yeah, yeah. We had the best. We had the best crowd response and all the actual, like, professional dancers. Yeah, There was me. There's me, Rob Gillespie and Pete Jacobs.

Neil34:45 Oh, really?

Chris34:45 Yeah, yeah. And Dave House as well. Well, yeah. So we did this dance together and we got the biggest clap. But it was terrible. Yeah, it was like the worst thing. It was. We were just mucking about and all of the actual, like serious dancers.

Neil34:57 Yeah.

Chris34:57 They got so angry with us today because we got the best, the best clap.

Neil35:00 We being Teletubbies.

Chris35:03 Yeah. So we did that and then. So, yeah. Acting and all that. And then. Anyway, so I'd finished that acting and all that.

Neil35:09 Yeah, yeah.

Chris35:11 And then I. I went to, like, unis to check out unis.

Neil35:14 Yeah.

Chris35:15 So was all the performing arts one, like the Paul McCartney one and the ACM, these different ones. And I was like, I don't really want to do that.

Neil35:21 Yeah.

Chris35:21 You know, and I decided that I wasn't finished, like, going out at home at Caught with College and really, I Was just about.

Neil35:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris35:30 I wasn't really very. I wasn't really very driven. So I ended up doing a year's course of sound engineering.

Neil35:36 Yeah.

Chris35:36 And like music production. And then an extra two years of that.

Neil35:39 Yeah.

Chris35:39 And then ended up going to sort of Derby Uni to carry on doing that. So I got into that kind of geeky stuff through that, like, multimedia. Yeah. Why was I saying this? Oh, so while we were doing the sound engineering at college.

Neil35:50 Yeah.

Chris35:50 The only reason we. We did it.

Neil35:52 Yeah.

Chris35:53 Was because they had a massive PA in the performing arts theater. So what we did was, is we used to go and rig up the CD player.

Neil35:59 Yeah.

Chris36:00 In the massive. Huge.

Neil36:01 Like Back in Black or.

Chris36:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just turned it up.

Neil36:04 Yeah.

Chris36:05 Just like. And like rattled the windows and got told off every day.

Neil36:08 Testing. Just testing. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris36:10 We were doing our work, but yeah, we. I don't know how. I don't even know how we got grades.

Neil36:16 I. REM frequency.

Chris36:18 But I learned. Sorry. I learned recording. Like, that's where all that stuff, like you were using ADATs and mixers and. And funny enough, they've still got all the old gear. So, like, when I went with my friend Simon the other day to have a look around the college, because they're starting to kind of look at this old stuff and go. We don't really know what to do with it because we don't even know what it is. And I had a proper, like, emotional moment was like. I learned to mix on that mixer.

Neil36:40 Yeah.

Chris36:40 I had a proper, like, you know, like, had a bit of a thing.

Neil36:43 Did you buy. Buy it?

Chris36:44 No.

Neil36:44 I'm surprised you didn't buy. I will do one day.

Chris36:47 Yeah.

Neil36:49 Reminds me of being. Being at college doing frequency sweeps.

Chris36:51 Yeah.

Neil36:52 And then there was. So we were just like turning them up and up and up and say, being. Being students, we're doing the frequency responses. And it didn't quite match what I predicted it should.

Chris37:02 Yeah.

Neil37:03 So we just kept turning it up until it did. And then it got so loud, like somebody. Some like. Like history professor wandered in. What the are you doing?

Chris37:13 Yeah.

Neil37:13 Stupid noise. And then the frequency response, isn't it?

Chris37:19 Yeah.

Neil37:20 And then I showed him that. I explained that it was logarithmic. And then he just. Look, if you do it again, I

Chris37:25 think if you say logarithmic in any context.

Neil37:28 Yeah.

Chris37:28 People just leave you alone.

Neil37:29 He was like. He had patches on his elbows. He was. He was proper. As a proper professor.

Chris37:35 He got his stripes.

Neil37:36 He was not a big fan of our work that day. I don't think. But there you go. That was, that was the same week that I set fire to the anechoic chamber at Holy University. So that I dropped my soldier knight onto there. I'm really sorry if I did that.

Chris37:52 It was anechoic. No, it's just.

Neil37:54 It was great. No one, it just smelled. It was just a bit smelly after I did it. But you weren't like. It was one of those, you know, like we, we needed to use their anecho chamber. Yeah, you can come in and do it. And I was in and I did some stuff and then, and then they said you can't like take anything in.

Chris38:08 Yeah, yeah.

Neil38:08 Right. So we went in and tested it and there was clearly something like flapping about inside. Okay, I need to go in and change it. It's like, well, you have to bring it out and then work on it. And then they all went for lunch. So I just grabbed my Soldier nine and a long extension lead and ran into the thing and.

Chris38:22 Yeah.

Neil38:22 Fixed it up and then as I, as I, as I kind of came out. Yeah, I pulled the Soldier nine off the thing I'd left. I was like student. So you just lent it on top of the like 50 grands worth of like stuff and then it fell down and melted the phone, which they didn't like very much.

Chris38:39 No.

Neil38:40 There you go.

Chris38:41 Yeah.

Neil38:41 Yeah. Weird, Weird times. Good times. I think this could be the saddest dust ever seen Turn to a miracle I like my mind is racing all is well My hand's tired My heart aches I'm half a world away Here in my head Sworn to go down and hold it alone hold alone and hold it go it alone holding on Ho ho ho ho Lonely deeps and hollow Half a world, half a world away My shoes are gone My life's gone I had too much to drink I didn't think I didn't think of you I guess that's all I needed to go it alone and hold it alone hold alone and hold it like birds Backwards, forward so far Though this lonely world is waste filled Pathetic eyes highlight the blind tide turns the storm it came up strong Shook the trees and blew away our fear Couldn't leave it here to go it alone and hold it along hold along and hold it going along and hold it alone. Going along and hold along hold along hold it backwards backwards, forwards and fall the hur of her oh this could be the saddest dust I've ever seen Turn to a miracle High fly My mind is racing as it Always will My hands tired My heart aches I'm happily. I just started singing that song about a month ago.

Chris41:48 I went back to the place where

Neil41:49 I wrote it and it hit me.

Chris41:54 How beautiful, that song. It's like really, really, really dark and really sad.

Neil41:59 But there is this feeling of having been through something after you've sung along to it. It. Yeah, I love that song.

Chris42:08 I. I completely forgotten about it.

Neil42:10 It just kind of. But, yeah. 1991.

Chris42:12 Yeah.

Neil42:13 This album, and I think it's. I don't. I don't know whether it sounds like it's nice. We listened to it in the car, actually, this afternoon, and everybody enjoyed it.

Chris42:24 Yeah.

Neil42:25 I think one of. The. One of the first times we. We've done that, everybody, the whole family were like, oh, quite like this.

Chris42:29 Yeah, it's all right. Yeah.

Neil42:31 And I don't think. I don't think it sounds. What's that, 30 years old? More than that. 35 years.

Chris42:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's just that there's the. Like. There aren't many songy songs on it. There's some that feel like jams. There's some that feel like kind of like song, like. Like sketches.

Neil42:49 Almost, like uneven, doesn't it? Yeah. When you analyze, it's fun. It's funny because if you listen to it, it flows so well from song to song. You kind of lose where you are when you're at the end. Yeah, that's finished.

Chris42:59 Yeah.

Neil43:00 But if you start listening to. I was listening to you. You analytically for these things, you start to.

Chris43:04 Yeah. And there's. And there's great stuff in there.

Neil43:09 The songs are completely different.

Chris43:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil43:12 But it still seems to flow together and just. I mean, it's such a bizarre.

Chris43:16 Yeah.

Neil43:17 Like, contradiction, I think, where, you know, if you actually sit and analyze the songs, they are like, different timing, different. Yeah, yeah. Some of them. I've got tons of space. Some of them, you've got the mandolins, you've got strings. You know, some of them got choruses, some of them don't.

Chris43:32 Yeah, yeah. But. But the palette of instruments that they use in the record is. Is different to what they had before because. Yeah, the REM sound was always very guitari. Yeah, it was very. Like they had that tremolo distorted. No, it's not.

Neil43:45 It's got.

Chris43:46 It's got strings on it. It's got pianos on it. And the guitar sounds are. The guitars are almost like more of a supporting instrument in a lot of this stuff.

Neil43:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris43:54 Run the drive and Driving it.

Neil43:56 You've always kind of had the. That like driven rhythm.

Chris43:59 Yeah.

Neil43:59 On an RM record with Jang. With the Jangles.

Chris44:02 Yeah.

Neil44:03 This one keeps the jangles. But it's lost the drive. It's lost the. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of lost that. You know, that kind of Pearl Jammy kind driven rhythm.

Chris44:13 A bit more sparkly.

Neil44:14 Yeah. It's kind of disappeared, isn't it? It's kind of. Yeah. I do think they come back to that though. It's interesting. I kind of.

Chris44:20 Yeah.

Neil44:21 I think those. Those kind of driven guitars come back a little bit. But. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?

Chris44:27 What's.

Neil44:27 What was fashionable about this time as well?

Chris44:29 Yeah.

Neil44:29 Like you had like.

Chris44:30 It was 91. It was.

Neil44:31 Yeah.

Chris44:31 Big rock thing.

Neil44:32 Wasn't Guns and Roses were doing the kind of. Use your illusions.

Chris44:34 Yeah.

Neil44:35 That stuff you had Black Album from. From. You had Nirvana. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of big, big rock albums. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This one.

Chris44:44 Yeah.

Neil44:44 So I've got like 20 odd million copies.

Chris44:46 I think it was crazy.

Neil44:47 And it's. But it doesn't.

Chris44:49 It's not. It doesn't fit all that lot, does it?

Neil44:50 Doesn't. No, it's interesting as well. Both of my boys said this doesn't sound like a rock album.

Chris44:55 No, no.

Neil44:56 Yeah, it doesn't. It. It's got a. I think you said it's got like an almost an Americana.

Chris45:02 Yeah.

Neil45:03 Feel to it. That kind of jangly.

Chris45:06 Yeah, yeah.

Neil45:07 And then you've got Michael Stipes vocal, which is such a unique voice.

Chris45:13 But then when you. When you sort of hear, you know, what sort of comes from this era of. Era of kind of like guitar based Americana stuff. And you've got like Death Cab for Cutie. You've got Wilco, you've got.

Neil45:25 Yeah. Of course.

Chris45:26 All of those kind of bands that even to a certain extent Pavement, you know, I wonder if they're there from that. It feels like they're from this kind of gene pool, you know. Yeah, yeah. For me it sounds very much like that. And even I suppose, you know, Guided by Voices and you know, the kind of morality side of things. But I think it all comes from this part of that American guitar based music kind of culture.

Neil45:55 Yeah.

Chris45:56 Which I think from this sort of comes from I suppose a more west coast thing like Big Star or you know. Although it can't, you know, you could. You could probably thread down.

Neil46:06 Yeah, yeah. It's interesting as the guests on this one as well because it's got. It's got that kind of Americana feel to it. And this. There's. The guitari bits are kind of toned back. But then you've got a rapper on this. You've got krs1 who just rapping on. On the radio song track.

Chris46:22 Yeah.

Neil46:24 Kate Pearson of the B52s is on. She's on three. I only thought she was on.

Chris46:29 All right. So more than that.

Neil46:31 She's on. She's on a handful. Yeah. Then you've got a saxophonist, kid Jordan. I was on there doing a whole bunch of, you know, a bunch of stuff on there. Peter Hols Apple.

Chris46:43 That's a good name.

Neil46:44 Doing acoustic guitar. And then there is a flugel horn.

Chris46:51 Flugel horn.

Neil46:52 I don't know. I don't know what that is.

Chris46:53 It's a horn. That's flugel.

Neil46:55 Is it? This is where. Do you know one of our.

Chris46:57 The flugel horn is like. I suppose it's. It's kind of like, you know, like the French horn and English horn and all that. Where they've not got the buttons that you press.

Neil47:03 I have no idea.

Chris47:04 I think it's more like that.

Neil47:06 You're talking to me as somebody who's familiar with horns. I have no contact, actually.

Chris47:10 I had to study who horns.

Neil47:11 Did you?

Chris47:11 Yeah.

Neil47:12 I thought you. You used to tell me anything you bow or blow. You can't.

Chris47:15 I can't do it. No. No. I can't play it. I study, like for a level.

Neil47:19 Did you?

Chris47:19 And I learned about flu gloms. I can't remember what they are.

Neil47:21 No, I'd have to. I'd have to like ask Chat GPT or something. You should tell me. I'd probably tell me it's like an airplane or something and I'd go, oh, that's really good. Do you know, it reminds me this does that we once had a conversation about bell tolling. Bells tolling?

Chris47:36 Yes.

Neil47:36 And a friend of the show. A friend of a friend of the show, Ruth messaged me afterwards and went, how can you not know? Know?

Chris47:42 Yeah.

Neil47:43 That are bell tolls.

Chris47:44 Yeah, I know.

Neil47:45 Well, because there might be more.

Chris47:46 What?

Neil47:47 What if there's more than one bell?

Chris47:49 Yeah.

Neil47:49 Does the bells tolls?

Chris47:51 Yeah.

Neil47:52 What does the bells talk? I don't. You know, you can't grammatically. I. I've got an issue with it. And she's just like, you're just an idiot. It's good. So if you're listening, Ruth, thank you for.

Chris48:02 Thank you, Ruth.

Neil48:03 Which is nice. Which is. Which is.

Chris48:04 Thanks, Ruth.

Neil48:05 Yeah. Most of our listeners are like that, so. Oh, they're not really. They're lovely. Lindsay's lovely. She would. Lindsay would never write to me and tell me I was an idiot because I didn't know what a bell tolls. Bells told bells toll. Did. I mean genuinely did bells tolls?

Chris48:21 When did we talk about. Oh, it was a Hell's Bells, was it? When we did that?

Neil48:24 Yeah, it was because we talked about the bell in of Loughborough.

Chris48:29 Yeah, it was made in Loughborough.

Neil48:30 Yeah, it was. And then she laughed at me because I didn't know that either.

Chris48:33 Yeah.

Neil48:33 She said, how can you not know the bell was made in Loughborough?

Chris48:35 Yeah.

Neil48:36 And how can you not know that

Chris48:37 a bell told me for whom the bell tolls.

Neil48:39 Yeah.

Chris48:40 Yeah, well.

Neil48:42 But I stand by it. What if there are multiple bells? Which is dead good. Right. This flower scores to spill my song on a mad in the clothes. These clothes don't fit us right. Time was placed, babe. It's all the same. It's all the same. You come to me with the bone in your hand? You come to me with your hair curled tight? You come to me with this one. You come to me with excuses. Ducked out in a row. You wear me out? You wear me out. We've been through fake breakdown, self hurt, plastics collections, self help, self pain, ass psychics fuck all I was central, I had control, I lost my head I know need this, I need this. Paperweight junk garage Winter rain a honey pot Crazy all the lovers have in town Hotline wanted air Crazy wanted you could. It's crazy what you could have had. It's crazy what you could have had. I needed. I need this. It's crazy what you could have had. Crazy what you could have had. Needed. I needed this. It's crazy what you could have had. It's crazy what you could have had. I need this I. I need this. It's crazy what you could have had. I need this, I need this. It's crazy what you could have had. Crazy what you could have had. I need this. I need this. Sam. Yeah. Luckily, it's fiction. It didn't happen, but it's one of my list songs, so. It lists all these ways that this couple, really, at the very end of their relationship, has tried to make it work and. And realize that it's a complete failure. It will never. It will never work. So it's a list of just one sad thing after another. I don't remember writing it. I do remember singing it. And I remember that I believe I sang it in history. I thought that I sang it once. Walked out of the studio and went home and like slept for 14 hours. Yeah. When we released that record, we did some. We went back and found a bunch of demo tapes and I believe actually there's a demo version of Country Feedback, which in my mind I had only ever seen it once, but maybe I seen it once.

Chris53:38 Right then, shall we do some facts? Facts, Facts, Facts, Facts, Facts.

Neil53:42 I like facts. I've got. I did. I did a table on the. On the blog about facts.

Chris53:46 I liked your table on this one.

Neil53:48 Did you?

Chris53:48 It's a good table. You should go. You should have a look. Everybody at Riffology.

Neil53:51 Co do that.

Chris53:52 Yeah. And you'll see it near the top. That's where the link to this blog is that tells you all about this.

Neil53:57 This.

Chris53:58 There are thousands of people that check out our blog every month, aren't there?

Neil54:01 Thousands, yeah. Yeah. It gets about two or three hundred people every day.

Chris54:05 Yeah.

Neil54:06 Which is great, isn't it?

Chris54:07 Yeah, really reading.

Neil54:08 Reading stuff about the show, which is dead good. So this is. So the album is called out of Time. The rumor is that it came about because they ran out of time to give Warner Brothers the name of the album released on 12th of March 1990. One record recorded from July to October 1990 in loads of different places. Usually when we do this, it's like a place right where we go and record them, or there's like a studio that they go into. And they did it in loads and loads and loads of them. It was produced by Scott lit and engineered by Scotland as well, which he's a bit of a genius guy. Mastered by Stephen Marcuson. Precision mastering in California. The art direction was Michael Stipe and Tom Raion, who did that weird yellow cover. I think they spent a long time and then put that big yellow thing in the front, which is a bit weird. The album before this was green in 1988, which had some. Some super big singles on it. And then there was Automatic for the people in 92, which was even bigger than. Than this one. As for things that we. We've not talked about yet on this one. The album was mixed at Paisley Park Studios. That is super famous for being Prince's Minneapolis compound. Did you know that?

Chris55:43 Yes.

Neil55:43 It's the best studio outside of New York and la. And we, you know, I had never seen. I expected it to be all purple and scarves everywhere and incense, but it's a very professional place. It's great. It's out in the middle of nowhere. You know, there's not many distractions out here, which is a good Thing None. No distraction. Zero distraction. Essentially. This is not a vacation. We didn't come here for the waters or for the entertainment or anything, but actually we're really easily distracted. So it's better that we'd be somewhere kind of where there literally are no distractions at all. That's why we don't work much in New York or la, because there's too many people and too much going on. Yeah. We recorded in Woodstock, New York, at Bearsville Studios. We came down to Athens and worked in a small studio there at John Keane's and came up here to mix. And we've done a number of recording tracks here, but they're kind of on the fly. So. That was Prince's studio. It's also where they first demoed Drive and Nights with Swimming off of Automatic for the People. Losing My Religion. We talked about this a little bit. Was never a single. Never really. It was never intended to be a single. Warner Brothers were unconvinced by a 5 minute mandolin led track with no chorus. And the band insisted and it became their biggest ever hit, peaking at number four.

Chris57:05 It wasn't supposed to be like that. Was it? Because the idea was is that you throw out that scene because it was. There was two things was that. And then there was Shiny happy People.

Neil57:12 Yeah.

Chris57:13 And the idea is normally that is you. Your first single sets the scene and then your next single explodes. But Losing My Religion exploded.

Neil57:19 Bizarre. And then Michael Stipe recorded the vocal for Country Feedback in a single improvised take. There's a lot of that on this record. He had a scrap of paper with a few words drawn from an unsent letter about a failed relationship. And the band decided the take was good enough and never re recorded it. You kind of get the feeling that. Dead chill.

Chris57:42 Yeah. Yeah.

Neil57:43 It's not like it'll do.

Chris57:44 Yeah, but. No, no, but it lands out last time. What? That's what it is.

Neil57:47 Yeah, that's good.

Chris57:48 That's it.

Neil57:48 We'll just keep that. Shiny Happy People was reportedly considered as the theme song for a huge American TV sitcom which. But never, never made it. And there's also a rumor that the phrase shiny happy people came from a Chinese propaganda poster after the Tiananmen Square protests. That's bonkers.

Chris58:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil58:10 Bonkers.

Chris58:11 Bonkers.

Neil58:12 We talked about the album title already. So we've talked about that out of time. And it was there with the last min. It.

Chris58:18 But.

Neil58:18 But they had some other ideas. So cat butt, imitation crab meat and trolling for olives were all potentially up

Chris58:26 there as and so quintessentially REM as well.

Neil58:30 Yeah, they are. You can imagine. I can imagine an album called Imitation Crab Meat. They're just like.

Chris58:35 No, that's just what it is.

Neil58:36 But it'd be deadpan, wouldn't it?

Chris58:37 Yeah, yeah. Proper.

Neil58:39 Yeah, that's what.

Chris58:40 That's what it is.

Neil58:41 What's funny about that? I just think it would be brilliant. Peter Buck's mandolin playing on Losing My Religion was entirely alive. There are errors and mistakes in it and he. He.

Chris58:54 Mandolin's are really hard to play as well.

Neil58:56 Stuck to his guns. Yeah, he'd been playing for three years by the time we did this and still said he was learning and making mistakes and blah, blah, blah, But. But he. Peter was, you know, determined to keep their feel of a live performance without overdubbed. Losing My Religion was. Was. Was the international hit single that should have never happened. We floated it at the time.

Chris59:19 The kind of the.

Neil59:20 The idea was that you, You, You. You put out a first single, you do a great video for it and people know that there's a record out and then you hit them with the

Chris59:28 second song and that's going to be the hit.

Neil59:30 Yeah. Losing My Religion was not supposed to

Chris59:32 take off the way that it did, but I couldn't be more pleased than

Neil59:35 I am that it. That it actually became.

Chris59:37 I think that's good.

Neil59:38 Me.

Chris59:39 I think that's good. We were talking about that just tonight. We're rehearsing and that came up in conversation. That idea of like. Like, you know, there's a lot of time where you record and you're in the studio and then you're. Right, right. Your click track goes on and then you got to play it properly. You know, you can't. You know, you got to do it right and everything's in tune and then you've just kind of killed it because you've taken all the human out of it.

Neil59:59 Yeah, maybe to a degree. I think it's interesting, isn't it? Where. I don't know. I think there's a compromise. Isn't there some. Some point. Well, like where. I'm not sure it's the click. I'm not a huge. Like most of my favorite albums weren't done to cl. Click. But I kind of think that it. It's. I don't know, it saves time, doesn't it? You know, when you've got to kind of move things or change things. If it's done to click, it's. It's just easier. But I quite like that live thing. But you. You got to be a good band and you got. Not just a good band, but you've got to be, I think, fairly together.

Chris1:00:35 Yes.

Neil1:00:35 As a band. You mean to be able to do it famously. REM did not tour on this album, so despite it doing mega well. It did mega well just on the strength of those two singles.

Chris1:00:47 Wow.

Neil1:00:47 One of which wasn't really meant to be a single. So. Yeah, it's extraordinary, really.

Chris1:00:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil1:00:54 Promotional promotion of this album.

Chris1:00:55 MTV time, wasn't it?

Neil1:00:57 Yeah. Promotion was TV and magazine. So they're in. They were in the Karang magazine and Enemy loved them and.

Chris1:01:04 Yeah.

Neil1:01:04 Melody Maker. And although they absolutely loved rem, Courtney Love, who we like a lot, was. She's claimed that country feedback was written about her, citing specific lyrics that she says Stipe talked her through. Stipe has described more broadly as a song about the ugly side of love. The spoken word vocal on Belong was recorded into Scott Lit's personal Walkman in a garage. They were trying to generate a lo fi reverberant sound that would contrast with the rest of the album's polished production. It is polished. This album is. Although it's kind of live and there's not. You can tell. Well, it doesn't feel like it's kind of massively overdubbed. It is quite. It's a smooth sounding record. It's no sharp edges on it.

Chris1:01:49 No.

Neil1:01:51 And the album CD longbox packaging in the US doubled as a petition for Rock the Vote, encouraging young buyers to support the Motor Voter Act. So there was. There was a time we had a. We talked about a bunch of different bands that have done this and got involved with this in the past, around this time, this kind of early 90s time in the US where there was a. A concern that young people just weren't voting. So they. They tried to get a load of musicians to encourage courage, not necessarily to vote a certain way, but just to get out, get out and vote. I remember. I remember reading about it in the in and Kerrang and whatever else where they were. They were talking about what was happening in America and why. Why young. Yeah, young children in the UK didn't get out of votes. And that kind of stuff too. And that's it. That's what I've got for facts. That's all I've got for facts for this particular record. So that's it. Facts gone, done, bash done. That's it. I think we're done.

Chris1:02:49 What. Listen to a song, then talk about the next week.

Neil1:02:52 I don't know what to do next.

Chris1:02:54 I reckon while we're listening to the song, we can find out.

Neil1:02:56 All right, let's do that. Sweet dusk is dawn day. Where did it go? I've been laughing fast and slow

Chris1:03:20 Moving

Neil1:03:20 in still frame Howling at the moon Morning found me laughing up and down, down low, low, low. Night suits me fine. Morning suits me fine. I've been so happy, happy Way up high, high in between down below Low, low, low, low, low, low. I sk. It seems so silly. Low, Low, low, low, low, low, low. I said the morning, it isn't your time. Barefoot naked I can see your lines doesn't bother me if you are right. Your grass is grassy but you're not light white sprite light white light. I skip the part. Seem so shallow. Low, low, low, low, low, low. You and me, we know about time. We know how things go. They come, go they live and grow, grow we pass and go Glow, glow. Up down, high and low low, low, low, low, low, low. I skip the love it seems so silly. I skip. Seem so shallow. Low, low, low, low, low, low. I like your hands. All for glory. All for glory. We were doing things that people weren't doing right that minute. And we were doing it with our own particular flair, I guess. I mean, that record, you know, in particular, it's a lot of songs about death, which is, on the face of it, quite sad. But there's an immense amount of catharsis, I think, to approaching such a difficult subject, facing on and being able to express the infinity that we all have through these shared experiences that are often difficult or not easy. And then being able to not only deliver but receive that through music, of course, provides a whole other level of, well, heartache. But other things, you know, it touches you in a way different way than other. Other mediums, other art forms too. So, yeah, I'm really super, very proud of both of those records.

Chris1:08:32 So part way through this show, we said, oh, we've got a quick. We've done a quick one tonight. We'll get out of here, do it quick.

Neil1:08:38 Hour and a half later.

Chris1:08:39 Yeah, we're still. We're still about 70 odd minutes.

Neil1:08:42 We've still got. We've still got jelly tots and fruit pastels left.

Chris1:08:45 We've done really well tonight, I think. Yeah, I think we've done well. We've got all. We've got interviews, then we've got music done with waffle. We haven't done too. Actually, we haven't done too much fashion faffing. That's a good point. I did Faffing early for a bit.

Neil1:08:55 Yeah.

Chris1:08:56 And editing's always a bit faffy.

Neil1:08:58 Yeah.

Chris1:08:58 But there wasn't a lot of faffing.

Neil1:09:00 No, we've been all right.

Chris1:09:01 Yeah.

Neil1:09:02 We didn't do too many rabbit holes. A little bit. A little bit of waffle. Waffle. But it's all good.

Chris1:09:07 Yeah.

Neil1:09:08 Thanks for coming.

Chris1:09:08 Yeah.

Neil1:09:09 Thank you, everybody, for joining us.

Chris1:09:10 Yeah.

Neil1:09:11 Let's do Goo Goo Dolls. Now. We've not done. Goo Goo Dolls are one of my favorite bands up until I. I would say.

Chris1:09:18 Right. Of all. We've doing these shows for quite a while now. We've got quite a few shows.

Neil1:09:21 Yeah.

Chris1:09:22 And I reckon Google Dolls are actually the most mentioned band probably across. Across the shows.

Neil1:09:28 That's because I like them loads.

Chris1:09:29 Yeah.

Neil1:09:29 But I only like the first four albums. Five albums. Four.

Chris1:09:32 Four.

Neil1:09:33 Four or five. I don't know. I don't know really where I stopped, to be honest. I kind of like them to a point. I still like the new albums.

Chris1:09:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Neil1:09:41 But I don't listen to them very often.

Chris1:09:42 No.

Neil1:09:43 So, I mean, I kind of. They're very. They've gone from, for me, from being almost punky.

Chris1:09:46 Yeah.

Neil1:09:47 And then they kind of went. Then you had these kind of melodies and pop songs and stuff got kind of added in there. And then you kind.

Chris1:09:54 Yeah.

Neil1:09:54 And that. For me, there's like. The shutter just comes straight down at that point and it's like, this isn't.

Chris1:09:59 That's the. There's a meme in the minute with Iris where.

Neil1:10:01 This is not for me.

Chris1:10:02 People are using Iris for, you know. What were you like in the 90s? Outside photo. Have you seen that one?

Neil1:10:08 No, I was a massive. In the 90s, but I don't.

Chris1:10:12 What.

Neil1:10:14 But yeah, that. For me, that, that, that. But you know when you talked about this with band. Like, that's. That's not my band anymore.

Chris1:10:19 No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Neil1:10:20 Do you know what I mean? Like, for me, it's like, like Superstar Car Wash and A Boy Named Goo. And, you know, all of that kind of stuff that was around there was kind of a little bit. A bit raw and raucous and it had kind of an edge to it. And then by the time we're at that point, it's. It's all been polished off and knocked off. Not that it's a terrible thing. Bands do that. A lot of Metallica have done that. Lots of other bands have done the similar thing. But, like, it's not my. Like, I, I, I would. Would really rarely reach for a Goo Goo Dolls record. Yeah. After Superstar Car Wash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, which is a bit weird, probably, but let's do it. Let's do a Boy Named Gear, which might be one of the best records that's ever been made.

Chris1:10:59 Yeah. Yeah. You've injured yourself.

Neil1:11:01 I have. What I did was I got. I had a little bit of a thing sticking out. I bit it off and now it's bleeding and I don't know what to do. I decided to keep licking it, but I'm like a cat.

Chris1:11:12 Yeah, yeah.

Neil1:11:13 It'll stop bleeding.

Chris1:11:14 Yeah, It'll be fine in a minute.

Neil1:11:14 Be fine, wouldn't it? Yeah, Yeah. I don't know. I might have a day off work. Thanks for coming. See you later.

Chris1:11:22 Bye. Bye. Sorry.

RIFF081 - REM - Out of TIme

Show Notes

When Running Out of Time Turns Into Your Biggest Ever Hit

Episode Description

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Featured Tracks and Analysis:

Tangential Gold:

Why This Matters:

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