Show Notes
When the Sound Guy Becomes the Sound
Hosts: Neil & Chris
Duration: ~98 minutes
Release: 15 December 2025
Episode Description
Before Tommy Victor was crafting some of the heaviest riffs in industrial metal, he was the guy behind the mixing desk at CBGB's, watching the entire New York hardcore scene unfold in front of him. That perspective, that immersion in raw, uncompromising music, would eventually birth Prong and their 1994 masterpiece, Cleansing.
Neil brings one of his all-time favourite albums to the table, an record he owns on every format imaginable. What emerges is a fascinating exploration of a band that bridged thrash, hardcore, and industrial before those crossovers became commonplace. Critically acclaimed yet commercially underappreciated, Cleansing represented Prong at their creative peak, with Tommy Victor deliberately crafting "heavy metal music you could dance to."
What You'll Hear:
- Tommy Victor's journey from CBGB's sound engineer to industrial metal pioneer
- How Killing Joke members Paul Raven and John Bechdel transformed Prong's sound
- The battle with Epic Records over producer Terry Date (Pantera, Soundgarden)
- Why recording in Seattle and mixing at Jimi Hendrix's Electric Lady Studios mattered
- The Beavis and Butthead seal of approval and what it meant for the band
- How Rude Awakening's failure derailed what could have been metal superstardom
Featured Tracks & Analysis:
The hosts dig into the bone-dry guitar tone that became Prong's signature, those deceptively simple "caveman riffs" that prove surprisingly difficult to play. Special attention goes to the breakthrough single "Snap Your Fingers Snap Your Neck," the track that put Prong on MTV and in every rock pub in the land. The combination of programmed and live drums, the weighty yet direct production, and Tommy's New Order influences all come under scrutiny.
Tangential Gold:
- Neil's elaborate car cleaning rituals and dreams of an ASMR snow foam YouTube channel
- The Silverstone Lap of Lights Christmas experience
- A deep dive into how tattoo removal actually works (spoiler: violent lasers)
- The great debate about sitting down for a wee
- Chinese "violent fans" and AliExpress shopping during recording
Why This Matters:
Cleansing arrived in 1994, years before industrial metal became a commercial force. Prong were doing the heavy-electronic crossover before Korn, before Static X, before the nu-metal explosion made it profitable. This episode reveals how timing, label politics, and one underwhelming follow-up album separated Prong from the stratospheric success their innovation deserved.
Perfect for: Industrial metal enthusiasts, anyone who loves the New York hardcore scene's history, and listeners who appreciate bands that were ahead of their time.
Transcript
Show transcript Hide transcript
No matching lines.
Speaker0:00
This is a test of the emergency broadcast system. The broadcasters of your area, in voluntary cooperation with federal, state, and local authorities, have developed this system to keep you informed in the event of an emergency. If this had been an actual emergency, the attention signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news, or instructions. This station serves the five walls of New York City. This concludes this test of the emergency broadcast system. This is a test. This is a test. That's what we started with. This is a test. This is a test. Prong. Oh, God, we're doing cleansing. It's dead good. The thing is about this is this is one of your favourite all-time albums. Yeah, I've got this on every, yeah, I've got loads of copies of this. And I feel really bad because I haven't properly listened to it. Because I've had a really busy week. Two weeks, because it was two weeks ago, I think, when we did this last. Was it two weeks or last week? I don't know. It feels, it's ages. Something happened. It's weird, though. It's like a time vortex in here. Because when you're in here, it feels like you've never left. But then there's been, obviously, some time has passed since we've been here. But yeah, I think two weeks. Two weeks. And I can't remember last week whether it was my fault or your fault. No, it was my fault. Was it? Yeah, at this time of year, it's always my fault. Yeah, you're all out playing Christmas in there, aren't you? Yeah, I actually had my Christmas jumper on that I was going to wear for this, but I thought it's not particularly rock and roll. No. So I thought it's probably not the best idea. It's rubbish, isn't it? Yeah. I don't like that. I've got a Dillinger Escape Plan Christmas jumper. Is that what it is? Yeah, which the family don't. Well, I'd say the family don't like. Oh, you've not got it on now? No. You've got to have you. No, no. But they, yeah, apparently it's not Christmassy. Isn't it? No. I'm like, it is. Yeah, but it's called a Christmas jumper, isn't it? Yeah. Is it made of that wool stuff? It's an ugly, yeah, it's a proper woven, ugly Christmas jumper, which has a Dillinger Escape Plan on it. Yeah. It's so good. They only made a handful. I think it is Christmas then. I love it. I've never washed it. Do you think it might be something to do with that? I only wear it once. I wear it once a year. And then I put it back in. How many years would you wear it then before washing it? I don't know. I've had it three years now. Well, what I do is I put it on the hanger, put it back in the wardrobe. Yeah. A year later, it's fine. That's the way it is. Self-cleaning. It's brilliant. Dillinger a self-plan. What? Dillinger a self-plan. Yeah. Escape plan. All of that. Self-cleaning Christmas jumper. Yeah. There we go. I've got lots of things to offload on you now because we've not seen you for a week. So guess what I did last night? Go on, guess. You never guessed. I reckon you cleaned your car. I did clean my car yesterday, yeah, because I put it back. Yes. It's been a way. It had to have a wheel bearing. But you know what? When you have old cars and you take old cars to people that look after old cars, you always get this, oh, but. So they did my wheel bearing because it sounded a bit manky. Yeah. And then I got this, oh, but you know, while we do this, you could do this sensor and we could do that. So they did all that anyway. Yeah. Okay. So it was away for two weeks. And I missed it a lot. Yeah. So I got it back and it got dirty on the drive home. So I had to wash it. Yes. So I did that. Can I just say, you towel drive your car. I do. That was what you just said. I do towel drive. My car doesn't even get cleaned. Does it not? No, never. I love it. There's something. Sometimes I go to my mum's and dad's house. Yeah. And then I might leave the car there. Hoping they'll clean it. And then it's clean. When I go and pick it up. That's your dad, isn't it? He does that. I like cleaning cars. Yeah. I like nice cars. Yes. I mean, I wouldn't clean, you know. Mine. No, there's a whole bunch of cars. Mostly Vauxhalls that I wouldn't clean. But yeah, it's nice. I get it there. I snow foam it. I have a cup of tea. You'll watch it. I like this. I've got this idea of having my own YouTube channel. Yeah. Where I literally snow foam the car. Yeah. And then what I do is I do like ASMR style slow motion. Oh, wow. Of it just slowly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Millions of people have watched that, mate. Oh, God. It's so therapeutic. I just honestly, I just sit there with my cup of tea. I'm watching the soap really slowly just going and it drips down. It's incredible. So I do that. And then, but that's not what I was excited about. No, sorry. I was excited because I went to Silverstone for the lap of lights. Oh, I saw Liz share something about that. It was dead good. What is it? It is. You take your normal car and then you drive around the lap. So, you know, you can go to places at Christmas and they do like illuminations. Yes. Like the, what am I thinking I need to go to? So, the Heights of Abraham, if anyone knows who that is. In that log. Yeah. You can go there and do it. The Arboretum. Yeah. Here, the National Arboretum. They do it as well. Oh, they've got one. And then. Burton on Trend's going to have one. Is it? Yeah. I bet you're doing it, aren't you? Yeah. Just me and my torch. So, you go and it's like fluorescent tubes and that and things move around and lasers and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you walk through it and it looks really pretty. It's a big deal now, isn't it? These light shows. Oh, they're dead good. And you can have a sandwich at the end of it, which is what I go for, which is really good. Yeah. Anyway, we went to Silverstone Lapa Lights and you could drive your car. You go on the circuit and you drive around. Brilliant. And there's like lasers and lights and it's really exciting. Oh, I see. It's dead good. Oh, that's really good. That was really good. So, I did that. Yeah. And I've been decorating. Yeah. So, we discussed last time we did this, I've been listening to Suicidal Tendencies. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite a lot. That was the last one, wasn't it? Yeah. I do that a lot. I've been filling in a lot of holes. Yeah. Been a lot of sanding. Yeah. A lot of listening to music. I ordered some records. That's a surprise. It is, isn't it? Do you know what? I bought myself a copy of Suicidal Tendencies, Lights, Camera, Revolution. Oh, really? The last one we did. Yeah. It just took a while to come. I ordered it. And then, but do you know what I have ordered? I've ordered Buck Cherry's 15. Oh, cool. Which I love. And they've done a repress in red and I've ordered that as well. So, that's come, which I'm excited about. I've not listened to it yet, but I'm excited about that. I've got to cover that. It's 2001, I think. Yes. 15. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we could definitely do that. Not yet. Next year. Next year is a dead good album, that is. So, I'm excited to do that. We've got a 25-year limit on. Not limit. Yeah, it's got to be 25 years old and we like it. Yeah. That's, or we don't not dislike it. Yeah. We don't not, just don't, you can't not, not like it. Yeah. Because over time, that means that we can do more albums. We'll never run out of albums until we're dead. Yeah. Can you imagine? Yeah. We could do it. We could do it until we're dead. I don't think we're ever going to run out of albums. I think we're at that point where the, you know, if we did this in like the 50s. Yeah. I think you'd run out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they didn't do that many albums. There's that lovely graphic. It's like a hockey, it's like a hockey stick where. Yes, yeah. Oh, the number of albums released. Yeah, it shows the albums released per year. Yeah. And then it kind of, it goes along. And because like, imagine like in the 60s and 70s, you had to go and pay to go into a studio and, and then it had to be pressed on and it would only go out on vinyl or tape or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you had to pay. There's so much money involved. And then as we went into the 80s, they got a little bit, you know, it started to get a bit cheaper. In the 90s, everything went digital, didn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like the beginning, the beginning to the end of the 90s, by the time you got to the end of the 90s, anyone could record anything. If you got an Amiga or whatever, you could do whatever you wanted. And then it, and then 2000s, Pro Tools. And then it ramps, yeah, as you go through the 2000s, and now it's, it's incredible. Now the, I haven't looked at it for the, there's that, that chart, but. Yeah. It's interesting. The thing that, going off piece, we're not even started yet. It's really unlike us, isn't it? It is, yeah. I, I do wonder, because I keep hearing bands say that they're not releasing albums anymore. They're just going to do EPs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that idea. Yeah. It's like, it's like, well, I'm not going to do it. Now, I'm an album person, so I always get a bit sad about that. I think I like albums as well. But I think if you're just releasing like songs. Yeah. And a collection of songs, an EP is good. Yeah. But if you're creating like, there's something about an album that's like a collection that's curated in such a way that it's actually a kind of conceptual idea. Right, if there's like a story to it or something. Sort of, yeah. But more like the ethos. It's got an ethos to it. And all of the songs kind of stick together as a body of work. Yeah. In a particular way. It's the body of work thing for me. That's what I like about it. It's kind of like, it's like, this is where, as an artist, this is where I am at this point in time. It's a folder with a shared identity, yeah. Yeah, this is what I've done. Yeah. And then you know that's going to change in two years' time. They're going to be slightly different. Yes. And it's nice. I don't know. It's kind of a, I like an album. The thing with Prong. Prong. Because they're good. Because I didn't know, I didn't know, you know, there's some weeks where I come and I'm thoroughly prepared. When was this? About six months ago, I was one prepared once. When you're coming up and you're prepared, I'm like, what's going on with you? What's happened here? But tonight, I'm honestly, I haven't, this is how bad it is. But bear in mind, we chose the album two weeks ago. I haven't actually listened to it in full. I've literally had a flick through. This album is, they... The first I heard from them was in 1990. They did an album called Beg to Differ. Because they're New York guys, aren't they? Yeah, they are. But they, their sound has always been, they were kind of like hardcore thrashy, a little bit, kind of a bit hardcore-y. They were never metally at the beginning. No. And they went through this kind of weird crisscross-y thing where they, their style, as their style changed. Yeah. Like they started to build a bit of momentum, like in this kind of hardcore world, you know, but it was quite underground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of in the kind of grindcore and thrashy world, that was the community that kind of quite liked them. Yeah. And then they did, I think it's probably with Prove You Wrong, they started to bring in more industrial and electronic elements. Yeah, yeah. In 1991. Yeah. Now, you've got to imagine that like the new metal stuff came later down the line. That's much later, isn't it? So this was a total jarring thing. Yeah. People weren't expecting it really. And they lost, lost a lot of fans when they, when they did that. Because they were thrash originally. Yeah. Because they were doing, they were like around the place. They were doing like shows with Metallica, weren't they? Yeah. See, well, they, yeah, they were. They were. Or was that later? Yeah, later really. It was kind of the, yeah. Well, I don't know. I suppose, yeah, they, no, they, they were all in the same orbit, even, even at this point in time. But they weren't, they weren't the big ones, were they? They weren't, they weren't amongst the, they weren't said in the same breath as Anthrax or Slayer or whatever. No, these guys, these guys were, um, underground, I would say. They were, they were not like super underground. So people had heard of them. Yeah. But not until, I mean, the Cleansing, which is this album that we're going to talk about, is 1994. It, the singles on this album is what broke the band. They were all over MTV, Beavis and Butthead, and they become huge. They were, yeah, you've got it. We'll be right back. Nothing brings more content for this world than the memories now found. Every moment of no scene is known to no reason the trouble unfolds. For the trials of today have no dread, really don't care how you feel. The present notion of miraculous change twists into multiple tears. Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! Tears! You snap your fingers, you snap your nails Seconds drip through my hands, lost of moments of bond All the spaces between bleed, a tribute to a sacrament never exposed A message to the forces, I have no pity Don't know how thankful to feel, expectations of my daily bread Kiss me the hunger to steal You are the gold knife, you break your back You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You want the gold knife, you break your back You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You want the gold knife, you break your back You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You want the gold knife, you snap your neck You want the gold knife, you break your back You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You want the gold knife, you break your back You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You want the gold knife, you break your back You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You snap your fingers, you snap your neck You snap your fingers, you snap your neck See, this is the thing, because there's a few bands that we've done this, and that's happened Yeah But it's a little bit before my time Yeah, yeah, of course So I wasn't quite there yet So I think this is why I'm not I probably don't connect with these records Quite the same way Well, so they, yeah, so it was everywhere And it kind of led to, you know, the Led to Cleansing being, you know, the album that hooked tons of people Yeah But you have to, you have to bear in mind what was going on at the same time You know, you talk about them playing with Metallica Well, they were playing on bills with Metallica Yeah But this is kind of like Black Album Yes, yeah Period for them, right And Load and Reload So, you know, Metallica are going down this radio-friendly route Yeah, yeah, yeah And Prong, I think, still I think they'd found themselves by 94 I think they'd kind of figured out what their sound actually was And I think the albums It's interesting You can kind of hear these changes Yes Their tone and their songs as they, as they, like, go from album to record to record kind of thing By the time they get here There's this, like, almost, for me, it's like this perfect mixture of different stuff Yeah, yeah It's, they've still got that kind of hardcore and thrash elements in it And the record kind of starts quite thrashy But then there are bits in there that are, like, just groove metal There are bits in there that are what would become industrial Yeah There are, you know, like, programmed drumbeats in there And a real drummer And, do you know what I mean? And so it's, yeah And you don't associate that with 994 No, not really So, so, yeah Not really That's interesting Because when you, when you, when you, when you flicked it through There was The only band that I could think of that were doing that sort of stuff In, in, in terms of the stylistic shifts of Faith No More Yeah, yeah They, they Um, Chilis were dead rocky funky That was their, that was their thing But they'd not got the, um But they didn't have the riffs or the metal No, they didn't And to be fair, Faith No More didn't, really No They weren't, they weren't particularly heavy No, they weren't They, yeah It's a good point They weren't They had big guitars and synths Yeah Um, but they didn't have the metal riffs like, like Prong have got But it, there's, I mean, there's an interesting history I mean, the, this is on, um, Epic Yeah, yeah Who had Pearl Jam Yeah And, yeah, a bunch of others Michael Jackson Yeah Right Um, and Prong Yeah And Prong really didn't fit They were not That, you know what I mean The, the, the record labels were signing heavy bands But I don't think Epic really knew No What to do with them They didn't really know Like how to, um, to market them They did put quite a bunch of stuff behind them There was a lot of push behind singles and things To try and get them, get them going And the touring was relentless Yeah Yeah Of the back of this record They were, they were all over the place Um, but it never really broke No And it's interesting You hear, um, you listen to Tommy Victor from Prong talking about this He's kind of Is he the singer, the guitarist? Yeah, he writes, so he writes So he's kind of the front man Yeah, he's the guy Yeah, yeah, yeah So Tommy Victor is Prong Yeah, there's no, you know There's no, that, that, the band just builds around Yeah Tommy at each point Um Which is interesting Because there are, there have also been different members over time And those sort of things I'd imagine Yeah But the sound's really consistent Yeah, and I think that's him But about, one of the things I think Um, like this is one of my favourite albums But I've never really thought about why It sounds the way it does Um, but one of the interesting things I think Is that Troy Gregory was the bassist on Prove You Wrong in 91 Now he leaves on the 91 tour Yeah So they're without a bassist Um, and And that was where they, that was where they Lost the fans, you said Or the thrash guys kind of started to move away Yeah, there was definitely like some Oh, hang on a minute This isn't quite what I'm expecting This is a bit funky And what are you doing You know, this isn't It was a little bit more Um, uh, experimental and electronica on They're still very heavy Yeah, yeah Still kind of the big thick heavy guitars But it's not It wasn't, uh, you know Kill them all It wasn't like thrash music Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah It wasn't like Death Angel and stuff So they, they, a lot of fans were like Oh, hang on a minute I don't, I'm not sure I'm not sure I like this anymore Yeah, yeah Um, so they were without a bassist What's with this electronic stuff? Yeah Hmm, get rid of it Um, so they signed Paul Raven For, for, uh, bass work Yeah Now, Paul Raven was Killing Joke Yeah, okay Yeah, he was kind of hardcore Yeah Punky Um, and he brought, like, I think he brought some, uh, some quite cool bass chops to this And it kind of, uh, it gets a little bit more technical, I think, for this album Yeah He also brought with him his mate John Bestel Now he's also, uh, Killing Joke Um, and, yeah That's interesting So it's a prong take on, yeah Yeah, he was ex-ministry So were Killing Joke, did they leave Killing Joke to do this? Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah I think Killing Joke had finished by Yeah, they've done, okay, yeah, yeah But, but he was in ministry as well, uh, John And, um, that gets really interesting Because he was, like, a keyboard programmer Yes, yeah Raven was supposed to be on that Power of the Damager record That, that, uh, that we did Like, uh, uh, he was gonna be back And then we were gonna get Joey Jordison to play drums And, like, Raven just never showed up And he was, like, I had already started working on songs And, uh, you know, I said, come on down with some material And it was going on and on I finally go, Raven, I don't know what to do with you I don't know what he was doing So I finally said, you know, I gotta, you know I gotta move on, you know And he's like, oh, it's okay, well, it's fine So then, um, uh, I was actually out with Prong We released, we finally released our Power of the Damager record And he called me up out of the blue I was in New York And doing, like, a press thing And I'm like, what's going on? He goes, oh, man, I'm like I'm gonna go over to Geneva I'm working with, you know, with Ted Parsons And the Tropon and Paul guys are gonna go He's like, I don't really wanna do it It's like, it was, he was complaining about it Like, going, like, you know I think they're dicking me around, like, financially and everything And I'm like, Raven, don't go over there I was like, you know, what are you doing? Just, why are you doing it? And he's like, I don't know, I'm not going He was like, I'm gonna go Alright, man, listen, don't go And they're like, I'll call you, talk you in a couple of days And then I found out he went over And then, like, two days later, I found out he was dead So, yeah, you mentioned it before we hit record That Ministry took a lot of influence maybe from the prong sound I think so That early 90s sort of thing I think tons of bands took stuff from I mean, it's obviously nascent, isn't it? So there's, like, stuff that's happening What does that word mean? I've heard that word before, nascent It just means it's kind of developing It's like, you know what I mean? It's like a little baby Yeah It's like a little baby heavy metal genre Yeah, like our podcast Perpetually nascent Perpetually nascent, yeah But, yeah, you know, so you've got a few Interesting people coming in And as much as the songs were written by Tommy I mean, you know this as well as anyone Yeah, you put a different player on it As soon as you go into the studio to record it You know, somebody's like, oh, okay Well, that's not how I'm going to play it Do you know what I mean? Or their natural style will come through Yeah And I think the keyboard and programming And samples and stuff That started to kind of come alive And started to get developed a little bit more as well Which, yeah, I think is really interesting I think as well, there are more There's more melody There's a lot of hooks through this And again, I was listening to an interview With Tommy Victor talking about What he wanted cleansing to be And he was like, you know We were bored of thrash at this point Yes We'd done the thrash thing We didn't want to do that We didn't want to be the fastest thrash band We didn't want to You know, we were like over that We wanted to do something else Yeah We'd experimented and, you know We'd experimented and, you know, mucked around with the sound a little bit But by this point, what I wanted was this, like, dance I wanted, like, heavy metal music you could dance to I wanted something that you could play in a club And that would be, you know, that would move people Yes That's what I was going for I wanted this, you know, I didn't want, like, uber, super techno stuff But I kind of wanted, like, big, thick, pounding dance music That would get you to, like, nod your head to or dance to That was what it was about You know, and then he went off on this kind of rabbit hole of these You know, I guess, you know, like, nine inch nails Yeah And kind of, this kind of powerful, like, trance music almost Yeah But with heavy, distorted guitars Yeah, yeah, yeah And it's interesting, because as soon as I heard him mention that You just thought, that's what this album is Yeah, of course, yeah That's what it is It's, there are bits in there that are still quite thrashy, I think But, like, you know, 75% of it is Someone else I've just started thinking about with you Speaking about that is Rob Zombie Yeah, Rob Zombie, yeah Because they were from this neck of the woods as well, weren't they? They were, yeah, they were CBGB's bands What is that? Because that comes up, CBGB's, in the blog And also in the interviews CBGB Is it a venue? Yeah, CBGB's was a venue in New York Now, I'm going to get it wrong I think it stands for country CBGB's is country, bluegrass and blues Oh, right, okay Is what it stood for initially But, that was the, that was the, the original proprietor's aim for it But it kind of got taken over by the punk rockers Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Through the 80s And this, like, incredible hardcore scene got built around CBGB's Yeah You know, where there was this, like, incredible scene of bands that were, that were there It's, I mean, it's iconic It's, you know, if you're, if you're new to it Then go and go and go into Wikipedia's CBGB's Yes Or YouTube, there's tons of documentaries about CBGB's and the scene and all the people that were there Tommy Victor Yeah Was the sound guy Right, okay During that scene So he was the guy, if you turned up there to do your set on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon Yeah Tommy was the guy twiddling the knobs Wow Which is really, I think it's, it's super cool Obviously really well connected in that scene Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah And that's where Prong came from That's crazy, isn't it? So, yeah, yeah The music scene and, like, metal and everything, definitely I mean, how many bands really are from New York that really are around or survive? Not that many So, especially from Manhattan I mean, it was like swans and, you know, white zombie, Prong, maybe, you know I mean, and Helmet, you know So, I don't even think Helmet went back, I'm not sure, but, you know By the time I left working there in 1990, I thought the whole scene was gone It only lasted from, probably from 82 to, like, 88 was where And then it got, it just became a tourist trap, the club, really And I was like, what, there's no reason to really be here And then Hilly, the owner, saw it that way, too He was like, you know, he couldn't wait to get the hell out of there War conquest War pride division Another Rape for a strong man It scares you Into submission Now's the time To face the hope More conquest, more found official, another, late for a strongman, it scares you into submission, now's the time to face the whole moon. It's a fight, never give a damn, all the times. Shoot them out, try the land, bring them out, take the flight, never give a damn. More conquest, more wild to fishing, another, late for a strongman, it scares you into submission, now's the time to face the whole moon. All alone, never give a damn, hold tight, to what you know. Those might, just a fight, knock down, upon the floor. More conquest, more found official, another, great for a strongman, it scares you into submission, now's the time to face the whole moon. Let's do it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. To face the horror After death To face the horror To face the horror The amount of great bands that were around And the amount of participation there was Of music people And just like kids And older fans And there was a lot of energy And I thought it was amazing It was a great time All through the early 80s And it just didn't center around CBG It was all of Manhattan really I mean there were so many clubs And great bands And I think of stuff like The Bush Tetras And a lot of alternative things And bands like Live Skull And there were so many great things That went on Glen Branca It was just an amazing art scene And it doesn't exist anymore People were living in lofts And kids were squatting in buildings And it was just like this open forum For ideas And we didn't have phones To be attending all the time And we didn't have internet And it was just It was cool You know a lot of these things That you grow up with And that move you into the directions Like you know I grew up in Queens Which is like We talk about cemeteries The whole place is a cemetery As like you know getting out of there Getting out of the old neighborhood And it's going You know screw this I'm moving into Manhattan And I don't care You know I was working I had no money And I was living in this apartment On the Lower East Side And that's what made me an artist Really you know Was it on this album That you discovered wrong Or were you with them before this Oh way way way way before this one Yeah you were with them Back in the thrash time Yeah yeah So I think it was Begged to Differ For me Yeah And again And that was in the 80s Yeah when Yeah 90 90 90 Yeah Yeah My mate He played the guitar And he loved He loved the riffs So It is riffs innit It's all about the riffs Yeah It's They're pretty simple sounding You know what I mean They're kind of like Chuggy chug chug chug I love I always loved that kind of bone dry Yeah I don't know And like the simple The The simplicity Of it It's kind of like caveman riffs Yeah Yeah But actually when you try and play them They're harder than you imagine Yeah And the The song structure's harder than you imagine It's like Deceptively simple Like ACDC I think Yes It's deceptively simple But anyway I loved that I absolutely loved Where they were With With Begged to Differ It was quite a metal the album was They did an album before that Called Force Fed Which was a bit more Hardcore That was pretty nasty I remember I wasn't a big fan of that at the time I quite like it now Yeah Yeah Yeah But at the time It was a little bit too I don't know It was like It was a very raw record Yeah Force Fed Sound It sounds like it was recorded on a But you know people say it was recorded on a potato It's got that It's got that It's got that A lot of that early thrash stuff did though didn't it It had that kind of thing It did It was that kind of punk Super dry Yeah But then recorded on a budget Yeah Yeah Yeah So it was Yeah it just kind of There's nowhere to hide No Yeah Interesting Talking of production actually It was Mark Dodson did most of their stuff Now we talked about Mark Dodson before Yeah they've said that name to Bill So Dodson did all the suicidal tendencies In fact I was looking at some of his stuff So Dodson did Judas Priest, Joan Jett, Loverboy, Metal Church, Death Wish, Suicidal Tendencies, Anthrax, Accept, Prong, so he did Beg to Differ In fact he did all of the Prong Records right up to this one Right, right And the band wanted Terry Date Yeah Now your man Terry Historically amazing, gets amazing drums Yeah your man Terry Date has got, I mean he's done big stuff Yeah He's done some epic stuff Now he did, at the time I think he'd done, so he'd done Pantera and Vulgal Display of Power and Soundgarden Records And that's who the band wanted Epic, the label were just like, no It's not going to work, it's not, we need somebody different We need a, like, you know, and they'd got their own list of producers that they wanted to use So they didn't want Mark Dodson or Terry Date No They wanted somebody else No Yeah And it was a fairly significant battle apparently For them to get their way But I think, yeah, it's interesting Because I don't, the album, like you mentioned, the drum sound on the record is really, is really, it's quite a unique drum sound Yeah There's a combination across most of Prong's album I don't know what they do on every album, there's a combination on most albums Of programmed and real drum kit sounds Yeah And I always liked that, that you can't, sometimes it's not easy to figure out what's Yeah Do you know what I mean, what's programmed and what isn't But the, the production sound of the drums sounds great Yeah It sounds like a, it's got this really, I think it's got a great, great drum sound And I love what they did with the guitars as well The guitars seem to get weightier Yeah But like, but they're still bone dry They're still, they've still got this kind of, I don't know how to describe it there But they, it's, it's like a, yeah, it's not full of reverb No It doesn't sound like you've got like 80 different layers of guitars Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, it's very direct Yeah But it's quite big sound and it's quite chunky Yeah, it is, it is, direct is a good word for it, it feels It's present, it's there, it's, yeah It's driven in this kind of way where, I think, it's funny because if you often, I watched an interview with Tommy Victor during the week Yeah It might have been last week, but I, he was playing some of his favourite riffs Yeah, you sent me that video It was really interesting because there was reverb on it and you couldn't hear it in the same way, do you know what I mean? That's so interesting He had set up reverb on there and it was I don't know what it is, sorry, slight, slight tangent Yeah I don't know what it is with when people like do guitar demos or they do like there's a new product thing or like it's a guitar thing or an amp thing or something like that They put delay and reverb on stuff Yeah, yeah, that's what they'd done to him And it's like, why are you doing that for? So he was playing, so Tommy was playing the riffs and he was like, you know, he was playing some of the like super cool riffs from this album and from the Prove You Wrong and stuff And you couldn't hear it, I mean, you know, as a fan, you know what he's playing Yeah, yeah, yeah But it wasn't very clear and I think it was because of the reverb on there Yeah I don't know, it's interesting because you got, like at that time, I guess most rock bands were winding their compressors up and there was like a wetter sound coming from the Metallica and we're doing this, you know, hard rocky Yeah, yeah, of course I mean, Metallica were like a hard rock by the mid-90s, they were radio-friendly hard rock band Yeah, all the tempos had dropped Yeah, it was slower, it was melodic But these guys were all out on the road together, weren't they? Yeah So I wonder how much of that rubbed off I don't know Like they all slowed each other down Yeah, there was definitely a slowing down, like everybody seemed to slow down, didn't they? Yeah, yeah Through the mid-90s Maybe it's because they had a bit more budget I don't know So they had a bit more time in the series so they weren't rushing I think that's where Thrash came from You've got to get the whole album recorded in like an afternoon I reckon that's it Just played it There's my hot take Just played it really fast Yeah, yeah, yeah Again, for a New York band, a very proud New York band You ever hear Terry Victor speak? Yes, yeah He's really proud of where he came from and New York and the scene that he came from Was recorded in Seattle, Bad Animals Studio Oh, that is interesting Owned by the Wilson sisters Who were the Wilson sisters? Off of Hart Oh Who I quite like And I think we should cover some of theirs I quite liked Hart Yes They were good They did some cool tunes Yeah What was their big one? Oh Shall I tell you? They're big singles All I can think about is I wanna know what love is That's not even the same band That's not Hart I will tell you I'm doing it now Yeah That's the station Hart Hartist Hart the artist Alone Oh, of course Yeah, yeah, yeah That was a good song All I wanna do is make love to you Barracuda Barracuda is the one Barracuda, I was gonna say Did they do Barracuda? Yeah, yeah, yeah That's the one I remember Crazy on you, these dreams Very, very, very cool band So they own the studio that this was recorded in? Yes Yeah Well, they were like a generation before, weren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I quite like that I don't think we've covered much of that kind of 70s stuff No I'd love to do some more of that Yeah, yeah Yeah, we haven't done like Motorhead, have we, or anything like that? Oh, God, yeah I know that was a bit later, but we haven't gone there Do you know, I was talking about Motorhead I don't think, they're a band that were just accepted by everybody But genre wise, never really fitted anywhere, did they? No, no No, it wasn't quite punk It wasn't quite metal, wasn't quite punk It was this like Yeah In between And Lemmy just used to call it fast rock and roll, didn't he? Yes, yeah Or speed rock and roll or something like that Yeah But yeah Yeah, I don't know I like, I could like, Prong didn't fit They were not hardcore, not punk, not metal No, yeah Somewhere in the middle There's something about bands like that Yeah There's another band in this period of time for me that was epic And that was Mordred Yes And if anyone's heard of Mordred before Then write in and tell me Because then there's two of us But they're a band that I absolutely adore No one's ever heard of Mordred No But it was again, same kind of time Yeah Mordred were around They were very funky Yeah Funk and metal and stuff And it was like a bit niche It was like I think if Mordred and Prong actually Like if Cleansing had been released in '98, '99 Yeah I think it would have been like massive Prong would have launched into the stratosphere Really, yeah And similarly with Mordred I think Yeah When we were looking to do this album I asked the chat GPT Yeah Because I like having conversations with it Yeah, yeah, yeah It's like having an obedient slave, isn't it? Like you'll say You say something like You know, what album should we do next to blah, blah, blah And it will say something And then I'll go like Well, that seems a stupid idea And it goes Yes, you're right And I like that I like it I like it telling me that I'm right all the time Because I am Because I am Because I am Because I am Oh yes, it was recorded Yeah, so it was recorded in Seattle Yeah Album Recorded in Seattle Bad Animal Studio Famously owned by the Wilson Sisters of Heart Sisters of Heart But then it was also recorded for production and additional bits and bobs at the magic shop And the final mixes were done at Electric Lady Oh, that's interesting Now that is a famous New York studio It is, that was New York's It's Jimi Hendrix's studio Yeah But she famously only recorded him once Yeah, yeah But it is legendary, isn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah I remember I was recording with someone in Rockfield And they were just going to have a Go off to do like a bit of a residency Oh Electric Lady for Like that was their next place of settling for a little while And they did quite a few projects there I think that's pretty cool Vibe Pure vibe, apparently Yeah It's that kind of place, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah It's that kind of place But Tommy talks about that in loads of interviews In like eight out of ten interviews Tommy mentions that it was done at Electric Lady Studios He loves that Yeah I think he's a bit nerdy, Tommy When you hear Tommy talking Yeah He's quite nerdy about Well, he's talking There's a bit of a play in a second Where he's talking about New Order Yeah And how much he loves New Order Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Again I didn't expect to hear that, you know But apparently that's well documented But I didn't expect to hear that Yeah, it did shock people I just relate to that To the isolation and darkness of Ian Curtis And I think the music is great too I mean, it's just fueled with so much passion And the eeriness of that music has never been You know, it's been tried to be copied by Interpol And then the whole goth movement sort of came from Joy Division But lyrically and I mean, I just love every Joy Division song and release, you know, it's amazing I remember interviewing Charlie Bernante from Anthrax And he was waxing lyrical about the Beatles Yeah And that was shocking people Yeah, yeah I remember submitting the article to my editor And she was, she's not a metal fan at all But she was just like, this is like, unbelievable This is like, it doesn't make any sense You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah But yeah, I like that, I think Music's music, innit? Yeah, yeah Should we talk about the album cover a little bit? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah It's dead bizarre, it's got a fork stuck through an eyeball Yeah, as all good album covers should have really I like this, there's a handful of album covers around this period of time that I like Yeah And this is one of them, it's kind of quite unique I couldn't find anything about it It was done, the photography was done by Ken Schlez Yeah And the art direction was from Carol Shen And the ideas behind it were from the band Yeah I have no idea what it means What it means, yeah, yeah, yeah Why it's there But it was, a lot of those, we've said this before, haven't we? But at the time, a lot of albums, they weren't really conceptualised or connected They were just nice pictures It's like, and that's another trend that we'll have to get onto at some point Is the, you know, there's that documentary, Squaring the Circle Yeah And it's about the album art of the 60s and 70s bands in London Yeah, yeah The kind of Pink Floyd, and I'm trying to think of who, there was tons of bands that used them And Hypnosis was the... That was the studio, wasn't it? Art director, the art company that did it And they, the thing that I kind of hadn't realised Is that they would just go off and do stuff on spec Yeah So they would be like, they had these projects running constantly And then an artist would come in and say, we need an album cover Yeah And they would say, well, this is what we've got Yeah, yeah, yeah And then you would come and select It was like picking a pair of socks Yeah They'd be like, I like that one, please, thank you And then that would be the album cover And, you know, then that would, you know, go on to be on the album cover And then, of course, the fans would try and connect the artwork Yeah To the songs Yeah, okay And when there was no connection, a very little connection Yes And sometimes there was, like, stories made up about it and things like that But I just, I don't know, I really liked that It was a real golden era There's talk of some of those album art The album art where they've been paid a million pounds for that, for that photograph That's crazy, isn't it? That's absolutely crazy You know, and they were doing, at one stage they were doing these massive shoots Like the, you know, the Led Zeppelin Yeah I'm going to get the album wrong House of the Holy Yeah, the one where it's got like the golden, golden, I'll say golden girls, golden mermaids Yeah Yeah, from the House of the Holy The devil, the causeway thing Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah And in the documentary, there's talk of them, that was done completely on spec Really? There was no, like there was no plan Well, there was an art vision, but it wasn't for an album, no one asked them to go and do that Right And I don't know, I do love album artwork I think, especially where there's, I like it when there's a story Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I like it when there's some kind of connection to it Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I like it when there's some kind of connection to it Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Tell you something, Cleveland. Tell you something, Cleveland. Tell you something, real. But you tell me another day. You'll never do nothing real. We gotta pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces. In Peace! Break up! Your kind of keeps on cutting Break up! Division you create Break up! Now it's all exploding Break up! The point of freedom to break Break up! Your kind of keeps on cutting Break up! Division you create Break up! Now it's all exploding You're going slow to bleed But nothing else to break Pick up, pick up, pick up the bulky piece No helping, complaining All this laying rule It's a time for maintain Gathering up the wounds You gotta pick up, pick up Pick up the broken pieces Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken piece Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken piece Pick up, pick up the broken piece Pick up the broken piece Pick up the broken piece Pick up the broken piece No, I was like, I had a really nice Les Paul special And it was like an SG, like a reissue And yeah, it got ripped off out of our storage space And I was like, there's no reason to have these nice expensive guitars anymore If I have to worry about them You know, and actually the guitars that I have right now With Schechter's are like my own signature model Is a great, they're pretty kick ass So, you know, you'll see them on, you know, what I've been playing I mean, I love them I had a Schechter You had a what? A Schechter? I've got a Schechter at home You've got one as well, haven't you? I hope it's dead heavy They're very well built It's dead heavy You could murder 20 people with one of those Not even, it wouldn't even knock it out of tune Yeah Because, yeah, I remember getting it I swapped it Because I do a thing where I buy a guitar And I get bored of it And I swap it Yeah And then I keep swapping them And then I never settle on anything And then I go back to my old guitar So how do you do with tattoos? Because you're a tattoo person How do you do tattoos when you do Because I'm like that I'm like, oh, I've changed my mind Changed my mind Changed my mind Too late now, innit, with a tattoo Do you almost like forget you've got it? Yeah, I do Yeah, yeah So, like, it's not a decision you have to make anymore No, no, exactly That's exactly it Yeah, then people go, oh, I like your tattoo And do you know what? Do you know what? Put me off tattoos even more That obviously I'm so in No, I'm not indecisive That's the wrong I'm very decisive But I change my mind regularly Yeah But do you know what put me off? You're frequently decisive I'm frequently decisive, yeah But there's that It's something we were taught at work Strong opinions weekly held Yeah And apparently This is really difficult to do But I It's just This is my personality It's just I make a decision That's what I'm going to do Lock on Yeah, and I've done And that's it But then I'll find out something else Or I'll learn something else And then I change my mind again Yeah, yeah, yeah So that's what I do But I watched a documentary Yeah Oh, Kurzgestad was it? I love that by the way If you're not used to If you're not If you're Yeah, if you're not come across that I can't spell it Kurz Kurzgestad Try I'm sure if you type it in It'll come up It gives me the K Yeah And it said how tattoo removal worked Yeah And I watched a 45 I've got no tattoos And I watched a 45 minute documentary On how tattoo removal works There we go How exciting is that? What you should do now Is get a tattoo Just to see how it works Just to see how it works Apparently it's incredibly painful Is it? And Get a tattoo's quite painful Do you know how tattoos work? Like Like The first I've got to get this out of my brain now The first 10 minutes of it Was just talking about how tattoos work Yeah And you have the The ink goes into the skin Yeah And normally Your immune system Yeah Would remove that for you Yeah, yeah, yeah It would say Oh, that's clearly not part of Chris Baldwin Yeah And it would go and remove it Yeah For you And get rid of it Yeah But What happens is The ink particles Yeah Are slightly too big Yeah For your immune cells To carry away Oh, wow So what your body does instead Yeah Is build Builds a scar Like a moat around it Yeah To protect it Yeah To kind of go and say Well Leave that alone Because it's Yeah Yeah, it's clearly an invader to our body Yeah Well, what we're going to do Just ignore it Because we can't We can't destroy it Yeah, we're going to build a motor It's like putting all this stuff in your spare room Yeah So we're going to do that Yeah, yeah, yeah So that's how tattoos work Yeah And the way tattoo removal works Is it They blast you with a freaking laser Yeah And that smashes the ink particles up So it breaks it up So your immune system And then your immune system Goes, oh, I'll deal with that And it kind of wiggles in And then removes it And then So you go in I think it sings while it's doing it Oh, God, yeah, definitely Definitely got to sing And it comes in I bet it listens to suicidal tendencies I bet it It comes in and picks up the pieces I want to know what love is It comes in Who did that song? I don't know I've no idea what you're talking about Foreigner I don't know Foreigner or Journey I'm going to search it up I Want To I want to know what love is Is the third option What is it? Freena Foreigner I was right It's off Oh, it's off of Agent Provocateur I know that album Tooth and Nail That was just Yeah, yeah, yeah That's a good album actually That's what your immune system sings 1984 It spins up 1984 Foreigner record Yeah Yeah And then just deals With the lasers The bit that I thought was amazing So they laser blast you Yeah And then Because it's really hot And essentially it explodes Yeah Under the skin Which is why it's extremely So having the tattoo done Apparently is less painful Than having it removed Yeah, it's not very nice You know where her shin Had a tattoo on my shin Did you? That's not That's painful Everything with the shin I hit my shin on the dishwasher door This morning Yeah That really hurt Yeah Yeah I had a thing about it I was going to get more tattoos Yeah Because I got them quite a while ago now A few years ago Yeah And then I got the bug Yeah And then I suddenly stopped And then I haven't had one since But Got the bug The bug Oh, the bug Yeah So I was It's due There's There's another There's another chapter Of my midlife crisis That's just about due I can sort of feel it Just Yeah You know Just creeping in So it might be It might be tattooing my face Or something Is midlife Is midlife a journey It's a journey It's not a destination It's a journey Yeah, exactly Yeah, yeah Do you ever get over A midlife crisis Do you think? I don't I'm constantly on one How do you know it began? Convertible Oh, God Your Audi convertible Beautiful car I'd have another now I'd have one I'd have another one Why don't you I keep For the listeners I keep sending Chris Like really stupid car Do you know what I nearly sent you this morning? What was that? Was it a Renault Clio V6? How cool were they? They've got the three litre V6 The backs It's no back seats No, no It's in like the engines Right behind your elbow Yeah They made hardly any of them Yeah Toyota did one of them As well in the Yaris Same sort of thing Honestly I remember driving One of those Clio V6s Around Donington Right And it was It was a horror show It was so hard to drive You imagine it's going to be epic Don't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah And it was It sounded incredible But it was fighting it Oh my God I was The time I was I was doing tuition I was teaching people How to So I would be there You know I'd go and do two or three laps With them just to make sure They could get around Without killing themselves Yeah When they came through track days And that was somebody's car And they were like Can you Well we went out I did like a passenger laps With them for a little bit And gave them some tuition Of just, you know I thought it was there Like I thought they were being Heavy handed With the controls Because the car was like Constantly trying to swap Ends on it Yeah, yeah, yeah And so I was like And then Anyway He came to me Later And said Do you want to have a go In it? I was going Yeah And I thought Yeah, okay Epic We went out And then As we Literally First First call And I'm like I don't think it was you Maybe it wasn't you But yeah Awesome cars And if you If you find stupid cars That are going to tempt Chris's midlife crisis Send them in So I just keep sending you All kinds of stupid stuff Yeah, yeah I'd definitely have an Impreza But I want one of them Big old blue ones You know The ones like The old rally sounds Yeah, yeah, yeah The Colin McRae Because the new ones Are a bit They look a bit normal Don't they The one that you sent me It's the sound You've got Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop You need that Yeah You need that going on But you've got to have All that, haven't you? Yeah, of course Yeah, yeah Very important, actually I like My car's got a CD player in it Yeah And I like that Yeah I like that And I'm Yeah It's got It lets you copy You can put your music in And I'd forgotten They let you do this But you can say Is it I can't remember What they call it Save, I think it's called But it literally Rips the CD You're joking No, to the head unit How cool is that? Really? Yeah So it'll save it in there So you load it in And then you go Save that Save that CD, please Yeah Wow That's really cool Yeah My car's My car was It was 2012 So it's just on The nanny verge I think It's just on that verge Of everything going A little bit too Nanny state Yeah You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah It's got start-stop Yeah Which I've coded off But that's all it's got It doesn't do anything else Yeah, yeah, yeah Whereas like All of the cars I've had since then Yeah They're just doing it for you More nanny stuff Like I had a BMW In 2016 I think it was Yeah You get in it And it would say It's cold I don't know it's cold Don't tell me it's I mean Stupid things Stupid is that? Yeah Yeah And then I don't know There's constant nagging Stuff Yeah, yeah Oh, in my car At the minute It's if you leave The seatbelt off Yeah And it's a annoying frequency Like they've nailed it They've nailed it It's just Yeah, it's a bit too loud And it's a bit too The wrong frequency So you just want to get out And not get back in again And that's why I've got rid of my Apple Watch As well Yeah, yeah Because if I put my If I put prong on In my car Yeah And it says Noisy environment Go away I know it's noisy I made it noisy Yeah I don't need you To tell me it's noisy And tell me that You know Oh, you're hearing Oh, you'll regret that Just do one So we tonight Because we We started recording Quite late Mainly because I was Faffing You do a lot of faffing Yeah You've got You've Lately You've gone You've gone You're faffaholic Yeah, yeah I've gone full faff But also You showed me Some new We've been on Websites The watch dives We actually probably Lost half an hour To that, didn't we? We did Yeah, we did And that's from My friend Adrian Who listens to the show As well Yeah So Adrian showed me We both love watches And have spent fortune On watches over the years And then he showed me This Chinese site Called Watch Dives Which are kind of Like a homages And I was like Oh, I'm not having One of them I'm not having one of them And then he watched The YouTube videos Yeah, I watched And then eventually I said, do you know what I fancy And then I've got one Yeah And then Now I keep looking for more So then I've infected you With that now Yeah, yeah And AliExpress Yeah, yeah By USB-C cables Yeah, so I spent While we were We were just preparing For the show I spent money on I bought 200 magnets I just love that You bought loads of magnets I buy car cleaning stuff I buy my cloth To clean my car But do you know What I bought While you were faffing I bought Newton's cradle Five USB-C cables Yeah, yeah, yeah What else did I buy And a spinning magnet I'm going to say For the kids For the kids Because both of my boys Love that kind of stuff Yeah, yeah, yeah I think what we should do Each one Each episode now Is Well, because There's There's inevitably Faffing That's a given There's always faffing There's always faffing Every week Yeah So I think that What we should do Is like Join the show And while there's faffing Just order something And then at the end of the show Reveal what we've ordered But it's like But your thing is You do it You would like I'll go on What did I order this time As well So I ordered I did the Newton's cradles They were £3 each Yeah And then I ordered My USB-C cables They were £1.50 each And then And then But I've also I need Needed this Need Because I love cleaning my car Yeah But it weren't Like in the winter They don't dry very well Yeah And so I dry with my towel Yeah But Car-drying towel That's the best thing ever I've got a car-dried towel But then I wanted to blow a fan thing Yeah And I wanted it Really powerful Yeah So like I can blow Like You know Finger dirt and stuff Out of my keyboards Yeah As well as The car and stuff Right Yeah So it'd be great I go onto AliExpress And start searching for You know Searchy Blowy fans Kind of things And there are loads of them And they're really cool But they call them Violent fans And I just think That's Why do they not Why do we not call them Violent fans No we should have better Descriptions shouldn't we Yeah That's the best description ever Yeah yeah And you know someone's just Typed it into like Google Translate or something But I love that Yeah yeah yeah I wonder what they typed in To get Violent Fan in Chinese Yeah yeah Yeah I do like that Yeah And what do we I've forgotten what we're doing So we're doing a podcast About classic albums Yeah And I'm Chris You're Neil Sorry I'm Neil You're Chris Yeah This album Yeah Is I think I'm going to mark As critically acclaimed But commercially underappreciated Okay I think this I think this album Is phenomenal As you go through If you've not If you like industrial stuff In ministry And you've not come across Pong Go right back to the beginning Go right back to Beta Differ And then work your way through Even up to the latest albums Because they're still doing stuff now Yeah They're still recording And they're still And it's still The sounds are the same It's still consistent It's still Production's bigger And thicker And stuff But they're still It's still riffy riff riff Yeah Yeah But they're good They're just Like if you liked If you liked The early stuff And you were hooked up on Prong And you've got a lot Lost touch with them a little bit Their new albums Will You'll reconnect You'll connect with them Really Yeah yeah yeah Really really cool band They went out on tour For this album They did lots of touring They were out with Sepultura and Pantera So that would have been Chaos AD tour Yeah And far beyond driven tour Famously The Pantera boys Would wear prong t-shirts Oh Not all of them Like Not like a Like a Dress outfit But they Yeah But they wore Oh that's interesting There were photographs of Of Pantera With prong t-shirts On which I thought Was really interesting And back in the day Like prong were just cool Yeah They were They were a cool band They were one They were one of the few bands That got featured by Beavis and Butthead And in In a non-negative way Yes So when prong came on Beavis and Butthead Were like Cool Both likes it Yeah They both Both loved it And Where did the band name Come from Do you know No No I don't I feel like I should know That but I do not I think Chachapiti Will be able to help us With that Have you seen that Boris Johnson Do you use AI Chachapiti Chachapiti He's like a caricature Of like Himself Now isn't he Do you know what I mean He's like He's like a Yeah Yeah Super weird Talking of The label It's interesting Because they were on A major label They were on Epic And Tommy Victor Often Like complained That he felt That they were on The wrong label They were on this Big label And had all this Money And stuff It was the wrong Thing They The label Didn't understand Them Didn't really Get it No It was because They were doing Michael Jackson Who you said Wasn't it Michael Jackson And Pearl Jam Yeah Yeah But again It's interesting Because The reason So they did Cleansing And then After cleansing Because Cleansing had got Snap your fingers Snap your neck Which was Which was massive And then after that They did Rude Awakening Yeah Now Rude Awakening Didn't have any Singles on it Right Right And Bizarrely It's a proper Dip in form Yeah So if you Like for me You've got those First three records Right So you've got Like Beg to differ Prove you wrong Cleansing Yeah All really really Strong records But you might not Like the style of them But actually Not the production Or whatever Yeah They're super cool They're really really Cool records Then You got Rude Awakening And Scorpio Rising Both of which I didn't like A great deal Interesting But Yeah And then I don't know Then you got Like for me They kind of Came back With Ruining Lives And then they did Songs from the Black Hole And then So when was that What year was that 2015 So 2014 I think They came back With Ruining Lives I think that A lot of people In the Who were big Let's say Bands that were Big in the 90s Yeah When it got to The end of the 90s And through the 2000s I think a lot of them Just lost that Yeah How do we cope With this You know Like this digital stuff This world changes So they went on Hiatus Really Because they did Scorpio Rising 2003 Then they came back With Carved Into Stone In 2012 Yeah Which is alright I mean So those Ruining Lives Songs from the Black Hole They were alright For me They came back With a bang With no absolutes And then Zero Days Was really good In 2017 And then State of Emergency They did in 2023 It was a great album Yeah I remember you showing me that It was a banger of a record And they're kind of bad I mean for me Like their best records Are like probably State of Emergency From 2023 And Cleansing In 94 I'd have a hard Time to choose Between those two Yeah See that's interesting Is it Because you'd imagine That after that amount of time And putting out a new record It'd almost sound like a tribute Yeah To themselves But it still stands up It is really good Those last three That they've done State of Emergency Zero Days And No Absolutes Really Yeah Really got it Yeah Absolute bangers Really really good Singles From Cleansing They did Snap Your Finger Snap Your Neck Which was the I mean it's just huge Yeah That was the one It was played everywhere It was kind of in the You know you went into the pub It would get played It was everywhere They did Whose Fist Is This Anyway Which curiously They had an EP Called Whose Fist Is This Anyway But there wasn't A song called Whose Fist Is This Anyway Was that earlier than this Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah It was a couple of years before Which again Is kind of a little bit thrashier And then Broken Peace Which I quite liked this album This track It was slightly moodier And a little bit slower Yeah Yeah Which Yeah Again pretty cool They did They did Although like Tommy Was kind of quite hard On Epic For Not supporting them Necessarily They did music videos And all kinds of stuff For these Which was You know expensive And Yeah Yeah Yeah And you know Took stuff doing And I have to be honest As much as I love Tommy I love the The band I think the reason They didn't get the Like if you look at the timing here 96 For Rude Awakening Yeah Yeah If they'd have put out another banger Like Cleansing Yeah In 96 Yeah Because It was interesting Because Rude Awakening Actually charted higher than Cleansing Wow Right But then just died a death Yeah Yeah Yeah Because there's momentum behind the band People just bought it Because they thought it was going to be Cleansing Yeah Version 2 Yeah And it wasn't It wasn't Right Yeah If they'd have put out a super strong record In 96 I think They'd have been Yeah Exactly But it's again Listening to Tommy Talk about that time He was like We were trying to replicate The writing For Cleansing And it just didn't work It wasn't coming We weren't able to do Do you know what I mean It was And it felt like a bit of a letdown And we felt It felt kind of Yeah You know We knew it wasn't Yeah But it felt very forced It felt We were under massive pressure Epic were massively putting us under pressure Yeah To To perform And it wasn't Just didn't work It wasn't conducive Yeah So it didn't work And then they got dropped So Epic dropped them after Rude Awakening They just got dropped Completely Which is Interesting Yeah Which would explain the hiatus Yeah Yeah I think it knocked them pretty hard At that point And in fact Tommy talks about this a lot Where The Second guessing himself Like thinking he's not good enough And I think a lot of it Comes from that time You know Being under that massive pressure Are having The success With this album Yeah And then it just Kind of falling out From under their feet Yeah Yeah When they did Rude Awakening I'm just at the point In the blog Where I did five things That you might not know We've covered all of them Like we always do The bit we haven't talked about Is that most of the songs Were written In Tommy Victor's toilet So he had this apartment In Brooklyn Yeah And he used to work On an acoustic guitar Quietly And he used to go And do it in his bathroom Yeah So not to annoy his neighbours Yeah yeah Nice guy Really nice guy Late night So you guys are having a poo While I write the songs I don't know Well I just think It doesn't say that Sometimes If I'm having a poo Yeah You write a song I haven't done that yet But I have a good thought Do you know what I mean Like you know You're having a minute And you're having a poo And you think And you go Oh that's a good idea And then And then you kind of run with it Yeah And I just wonder if More people should try having I do in the shower I think people should try And write songs Whilst having a poo Just because I think The only problem is though He's not very healthy Is it to stay Sat down Like In poo pose Is he not For too long I didn't know that Yeah it's a problem I think What kind of problem Will that cause I think it's Circulation with the legs Or do you like over poo But also Yeah yeah But also Because you're kind of like You're a bit open aren't you With the back And you know Something might get in Yeah Yeah yeah yeah Oh god Yeah No well you're just a bit loose Aren't you And all that sort of thing Oh my god I don't You might be Overly forcing it Oh Yeah Yeah That could cause problems Yeah I suppose Yeah I like to sit down For a wee now Do you I do yeah I like doing that I like to sit down For a wee It's like a break Isn't it Yeah I'm not there yet I like that It's quite nice You just get to sit down I like my friend Or he said He can't go to the toilet Without taking his phone Yeah I like to do it without I like to just You know Go and just sit And contemplate Do my wee Yeah I'm done Yeah I was finding it weird I was finding it quite strange To speaking about About males Yeah Where Where they full on Drop trow You know what I mean Not just doing Not just doing the flies Yeah And doing the business with that Yeah But actually full drop trow Oh Around the ankles Yeah yeah yeah In a public toilet Yeah Kind of Oh god that's weird Do you know my youngest Won't use a stand up urinal Really No Which is horrific Because he's quite He's a bit hygienic Yeah Yeah And so If ever you go anywhere That's like a little bit dirty He's a little bit Yeah gets a bit He struggles with it Yeah But he's quite happy To go into a trap In like a You know in like A motorway service station Yeah yeah yeah You know And you think Oh the things that have happened In those traps You don't Yeah Do you know what I mean And you can kind of smell it The things are backing up And there's normally a man With a mop isn't there Yeah yeah yeah And you're like oh god This is not going to be very good Yeah yeah yeah But he'd rather does that Than do a full on A stand up That's really interesting Urinal Urinal Urinal Yeah That's weird Yeah I'm sure he'll get out of that Yeah So anyway Back to So Tommy wrote In the toilet Yeah I don't know whether He was pooing or not No I don't We took quite a detour Then didn't we We did I want to talk a little bit About the impact Of this album Because there's a bunch Of bands I think Were kind of nurtured By this But there's one band That I think I'd like to cover next Okay So I think they influenced A huge number of bands But I think Korn and Static X Yeah Like Ministry Were around the same time I do think there's a little bit Of crossover Yeah yeah I think they're kind of Looking over here But they were sort of Running in parallel Yeah a little bit Copying each other's homework But Yeah Yeah I mean Yeah Prong were heavier Yeah Ministry were a little bit Softer and a bit more Commercial Yeah Yeah And I would say A little bit They ended up being more Their output was more stable Do you know what I mean Yeah yeah yeah They were able to get You know When it counted They were banging The good albums out Because honestly I think if that Rude Awakening record Had been a little bit More commercial Yeah they'd have smashed it Yeah I think I think they'd have They'd have absolutely Slammed it But yeah But didn't Again We're going through Some of the factors The cleansing Didn't chart Particularly well No I think 107 I think it charted Yeah yeah But critically acclaimed That's so interesting The critics liked it But the fans Didn't kind of Pick up on it Yeah I mean Absolutely bonkers Really And that's about it Really I'm just gonna Let me look At my facts Let me look I've got a table Of facts Let me look At the table Of facts Which I'll do Super quickly So Released January 25th 1994 Recorded in 1993 In Seattle And then was Mixed in In New York Label was Epic record Produced by Terry Date Length 58 minutes Well that's long For you Isn't it But I think It's 12 tracks Is it 12 tracks I think it's 12 tracks Which is acceptable Yeah yeah That's Approximately right Tommy Victor On vocals and guitars It's not about The length of the album It's about the song Yeah Length ratio I don't like long songs So I get confused Where I'm at I'm like Is this the next song yet Or it's still in the same song Paul Raven on bass Ted Parsons on drums And John Bechdel On keyboards And programming Three singles We talked about Snap your fingers Snap your neck Whose fist is this anyway Unbroken piece Again All three of them Are pretty Pretty good singles Pretty banging Snap your fingers Snap your neck It was the one That was massive 126 on the Billboard 200 Snap your fingers Snap your neck Got to 80 On the UK singles chart Which was the highest It had been Yeah highest It had been done It was reissued In 2008 If you wanted To go and get A reissue And they've also Just redone the vinyl So if you go to I think it was on Ear rake Okay Yeah yeah Because they do a bit Of that Don't they Ear rake Yeah Yeah I'm just Looking to see Oh music on vinyl So if you search for Music on vinyl Oh I see Right it's on that Music on vinyl You can find The presses And I've got all Of these I ordered them All when they Came out Yeah yeah So I have them And they are Super cool You've got problems It's the Yeah I do I've got a problem Do you know You'd be proud of me Because I still Haven't ordered The Napalm Death So Napalm Death They've got a On if you go Into Ear Rake They're doing The first Oh god knows How many albums They've done But they're doing Loads of albums there It's like 200 quid Really What for the whole box Yeah for the big Big box set I bought the carcass one Which is amazing I've not bought The Napalm Death one And I do really Really want it And I'm feeling Quite pleased I'm feeling like I've Yeah you've really Achieved something there mate Do you want to know What I thought We could do next Oh should we play A song first Oh yeah Let's do that Yeah Yeah yeah yeah Playing for the hate team Shut out Cut out Of the mystery If you like to play victim You played a fuck so well That's how it will treat you If it loses you so well Hey there It's all turning Look at your world burn Hey there It's all burning Watch your world turn Play it on the hate team Shut out Cut out Don't you may see Play it for the hate team Hate team Hey there Hey there Hey there It's all burning Watch your world turn Hey there It's all burning Watch your world turn Hey there It's all turning Watch your world burn Hey there It's all turning Watch your world burn Hey there It's all turning Watch your world burn Hey there It's all turning Watch your world burn Hey there It's all turning Watch your world burn Hey there It's all turning Watch your world burn Hey there It's all turning Watch your world burn Watch your world burn You'd rather be The way I heard So pathetic Let your mind set you free Play it on the hate team Play it on the hate team Shut out Cut out Out of the mystery Out of the mystery Out of the mystery I don't know. Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Who's fast? Is this anywhere? Right. What's next then? Oh, so what I thought we could do is Static X, Wisconsin death trip. It's a good home title that is dead good. I like it. Very industrial. Very cool. I super cool. They are just reissuing this, which is why I thought it'd be quite cool to do it. So PR sent me a early copy of it. And it's it's it's really cool. So obviously, yeah, we we lost Wayne. But what they've done is they've gone back through the archives. And they've found some like old footage and, you know, old recordings and stuff like that. And so they kind of pulled together. Yeah, this, you know, it's remastered. Yeah, version of of the album. But there's a bunch of other stuff in there to never been released or yeah, I like that kind of stuff. And I think they've done quite a nice job. And there's like a bunch of like if you buy the physical copies of it, there's you know, the vinyl is quite pretty. Cool. Yeah, you know, photographs and things like that from from back in the day, which we never released for me. I like that kind of stuff that attention to detail. I like it when they do that. I'm still with his passing, as you say. Yeah, I'm still not a fan of them doing the remaster. I just think just leave the bloody thing alone. Yeah, sounds great. Yeah, leave it. It doesn't need remaster. Like it's like remastering prong album. Just don't do it. Leave it alone. It seems like in this instance, they're just enhancing. Yeah, they've definitely. And it's been it's been it's been breathed on. Yeah, let's say it's been it's somebody's twiddled knobs on it and that but unnecessarily, I would say probably but yeah, but yeah, there's the stuff surrounding it that I think is pretty cool. So but anyway, I thought it'd be quite a nice thing to do. It's coming up to the it was the anniversary. Yeah, I think as well, I think it fits nice. It's 99. And it lets us kind of see where that industrial where it ended up. Yeah, where the trip went. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. And then we can go somewhere else. I mean, I think maybe that's the last one we do this year. Yeah. And then the next one we do is is 2026. Yeah, yeah. Where we unlock a whole new year of albums. Yeah, we do, don't we? We can do 2001. Yeah. Um, do we do it? Like do we we tie it to the month? I mean let's just go for the year number yeah yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah and what's the worst that can happen someone might challenge us on the internet probably I mean we've not followed our own rules I mean like shock shock horror we've broken our own rules but yeah no I like that I like the idea of going to do something a little bit different cool when perhaps when we come back in January I don't know whether we go older go back foreigner more deep deep purple yeah yeah yeah I spoke about deep purple recently or or we go we go go even further back I suppose rolling stones you've been threatening a rolling stone I do yeah I do like the stones the stones to me like that's part of my upbringing that kind of you know the early queen and rolling stones and all of that was played in the house when I was when I was growing up yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's definitely part of my yeah you know you know that music that you get like it's it's it's part of your growing up but you've got no influence over it it's the music that your parents were playing yeah yeah yeah it's just there isn't it yeah so so that that's definitely part of my my upbringing but I'd love to do do that do you know and again there are albums that I know really well like Beggar's Banquet so I know that album really really well I don't know anything about it yeah I don't know where it was recorded we'll probably go do that then yeah I don't know where it was recorded don't know I mean I know who played on it but I don't know much no I don't there's a whole bunch of stuff around that time yeah yeah you know like you mentioned Foreigner, Boston yeah yeah yeah there's a whole bunch of kind of quite cool bands in the 70s yeah I like the start I like the you know the 70s production I do as well there's something really I don't know it's kind of an analogue liquid feel to it but it's got a bit of clarity to it still yeah it's kind of got this lovely you know for me that one of my memories and one of the reasons that got me into audio and stuff in the first place was sitting in it was Tamworth Cinema and they played music at the beginning when you're waiting for the film to start yeah they used to play this music and it just hit me how like crystal clear it was how but how beautiful it sounded it wasn't like yeah there was nothing jarring in there there were no sharp edges to it but it had this bite and the attack on like the I could hear plectrums on the bass guitar I could hear you know what I mean you can hear all these details and nuances coming through there yeah you kind of don't get that with the 80s music you didn't get the same stuff so so I'd love to go and do some 70s stuff but likewise it opens up a bunch of stuff like it opens up like Buck Cherry's 15 for us oh god there was tons of stuff in 2001 that it kind of opens up for us now so I don't know sounds good sounds like a plan so if we don't see before which I've lost track of what day it is so we're fine we've got what we can do we can do the Static X one next week yeah and we'll still be alright and then we'll have like a Christmas break yeah of a week or so yeah and then we'll come back in January yeah with with something that's great that is a good plan so thanks for being with I want to say thanks for being with us over the year yeah it's been it's been a good year it has do you know I was I'd got the thing up I'm going to show you this look because you'll like this while we've been recording I have this sublog which shows this is live this is for people listening to the podcast live so while we've been on air someone's listened to the Black Sabbath record the Black Sabbath episode Riff 57 good numbers Riff 10 which was Testament the New Order Riff 11 Linkin Park Hybrid Theory Riff 70 Bush 16 Stone L7 and Suicidal Tendencies that one gets a lot of love still and then again someone else listened to Bricks are Heavy as well and that's just why we've been on air that's just great isn't it it's lovely it's brilliant I sometimes it's since now the show gets listened to a lot it's lovely being able to see people listening to it if that makes if that makes sense it kind of gives you you know sometimes you think oh why do you know what I mean like coming here and recording the show is the fun part and we get to hang out and do cool stuff and muck about so that's what's driven us creating the show since for a long time because we've done lots of different versions and no one's listened really but this one this one's got it yeah now people are actually listening and it's cool it's kind of it gives you this like oh actually somebody cares yeah so if you're doing a creative project don't give up yeah don't stop don't give up don't stop don't give in and just just kind of carry on and eventually you know I don't know there's that statement isn't there which then what's what's for you won't pass you by yes and I like that so so there you go but anyway I hope you have a pleasant holiday and and Christmas and all of the things whatever you you do I'm not a massive fan of Christmas as Chris and I discussed earlier it's too messy I don't like tinsel and I don't I don't I just I don't I don't like tinsel and I don't like baubles I don't I like some of the Christmas movies I like yeah Die Hard yeah that's a great Christmas movie and Lord of the Rings for me is it I always associate Christmas with Lord of the Rings yeah because they all came out December time I like yeah so I like I like that and I've definitely watched that Lord of the Rings in full for me the Christmas like things like Christmas things that I like to do yeah as a family so the family they all like Harry Potter so we often will watch the Harry Potter movies I like to watch the Alien movies yeah they've got nothing to do with Christmas I really like them yeah so I watch them it's the only time of the year I get to kind of relax a little bit yeah Die Hard you have to do yeah it just is the way of the world you have to do Die Hard and it is a Christmas movie yeah yeah that's about it really then it's just I don't know I find I spend the entire Christmas picking stuff up don't you like people just leave crap everywhere yeah yeah now you keep buying stuff off AliExpress it's like just tinsel and cardboard and what's that oh it's a it's an ornament and why is there stuff sellotaped to this I've just painted the ceiling it's like blue tack what's all that all about it's rubbish don't like it anyway I'm not miserly really well I'm a bit miserly but there you go so enjoy Christmas and we will see you next week see you later bye and then yeah we'll be back alright bye sorry sorry mum