A Chris: Sam. Rivology.
B Neil: It's. It is rifology. We're Rifology. We're back.
A Chris: Back.
B Neil: It's been three weeks. Is it three weeks? It's been three weeks since we did Metallica puppets. I can't remember what happened.
A Chris: Mad. Like, loads of people listen to that all over the world.
B Neil: He says, I don't. I've got to a. With when I look at the stats for them. You know, when we first did the podcast, I used to look at the stats all the time.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And you. They'd be like, almost like one lesson.
A Chris: That's how to listen.
B Neil: It is. And it's like, oh, God, someone's listening. Yeah, someone's listening to it. And then.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. For the first week you might have three people listen to it, and then the next week five people. And you'd be like, this is going to be the best thing ever.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: Now there's enough people. Like there's somebody permanently listening to our show all the way around the world. So whenever. If, like whenever you think about it, somebody's listening to some. Some of the nonsense that we talk. That we've talked about.
A Chris: We talk.
B Neil: Absolutely. So when. When we first started this, it was so easy.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Because it's just me and you in this room and no one listens to it.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. And it's just.
A Chris: Let's be. It's just us hanging out.
B Neil: It is. And now. Now.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: There are other people with us and that. I find that.
A Chris: I find it really hard. Yeah.
B Neil: Find it a bit overwhelming sometimes when you kind of think, you know.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Somebody. Because it's. It's like.
A Chris: Like more people around the world listen to it than the people that are in the country where we're from. That's the bit that I got.
B Neil: That's the madness.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah, it is. I like, I do know. I do love, like the democratization of that.
A Chris: Yeah. Podcast sort of thing.
B Neil: I love all of that Internet. I think the Internet's done a lot of bad things. I'm. I'm sure. But so it reminds me of the Babel Fish. For those that are Hitchhiker's Guide fans. It was caused more. More and bloody awards than any other thing. But, like connects people together.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And there's no limit. Like, it. It just kind of, you know, those like little. Little islands, if you like, of people. It gets rid of that.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Yeah. You can. You can find your people. And I've always really liked that. But yeah, I do find this. This now is at a point where it's a bit. I don't.
A Chris: What do we do? Have we actually got to plan stuff now?
B Neil: Because.
A Chris: Well, P. Word.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Because we could plan stuff.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: I think it'd be as good.
B Neil: I don't. We've tried planning. The thing is, we plan. We're dead good at planning, then we just completely ignore it and we're like just kind of, you know, glide on by the plan. Yeah, but it's weird. Like, you know, if someone pays you to do something.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: There are things that I love to do and the second someone says, oh.
A Chris: Yeah, it's not fun anymore, is it?
B Neil: I'm like, oh, I'm just taking. I don't like it anymore.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And I don't want that to happen to this.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: So, yeah. Don't ever pay.
A Chris: Don't ever pay.
B Neil: Anyway, we do an extreme.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Doing the. We should have done porno graffiti, really. Because that's the big one. That's the one everybody knows. But.
A Chris: Oh, there's a but.
B Neil: I think this has got. This is more fun.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: This has got a better story. It's got. I think this one.
A Chris: This one was in Bill and Ted.
B Neil: Yeah, it was in Bill and Ted.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's in Stranger Things, which is how we got to it. The journey for us, we. We were talking about when we did Metallica album. We were talking about Master of Puppets and that being covered. It wasn't just in Stranger Things. It was like a pivotal. It was like a pivotal story point where. Where he was playing Master of Puppets.
A Chris: And then killed a bad running at the hill. That one.
B Neil: I don't. I don't like that very much. Yeah, no, it's not true. I don't not like that. But it's. It's, you know, when something gets played over, something that you're not a big fan of.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And it gets played over and over and over.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: It's got on my nerves anyway, that. So that got played in Stranger Things and that's how we got here. Because Play With Me not. Yeah, Play With Me was in that and it was in Bill and Ted. And it reminded me of the. The story. Not necessarily just the story, but the. The scene that was existing around this time, the late 80s, early 90s, where kind of hair metal and hard rock was kind of just on the verge of disappearing. And then you had. I think this, for me, extreme or one of the last bands.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: To catch that and. And rock it.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Right. If. I think if this album had. Have come out Three years before.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: There better have been twice as big.
A Chris: As really they were, because they would.
B Neil: Have been right in the middle of that scene.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You know, but then you've got. This was 1989, and as we heard at the intro to our show. Yes, young Nuno can twiddle a guitar. He's pretty. He's.
A Chris: I don't think. I'll be honest, I don't think there are many better guitarists on the planet than Nuno. Nuno beating core. Right. Was Betancore being called Bangle? What is it?
B Neil: I say Betancore, but I say betting call.
A Chris: I just said being called them for no reason.
B Neil: I'm quite common.
A Chris: Yeah. Nuno Betancore. I'd say Betancore.
B Neil: He's like.
A Chris: He's like a very special human being with a guitar. There's no one better, honestly, in terms of, like, you know, people talk about Jeff Beck and they talk about, you know, legend, like Clapton. They can't do what Nuno does.
B Neil: They're different. So don't like. It's a really good point. And because I go through phases with, like, shreddy guitar. Right. So. So like Joe Satriani, you know, and. And his, you know, crew of. Of of people, Steve V. And, you know, that lot. And sometimes I really like it and sometimes I don't like it quite as much, but I find. I find. I don't put extreme in that category. No, no jumping. It's not twiddly. Like, often that stuff is really great. I love Joe Satriani, but it's. It's like you have to be in the movie. Yeah, kind of. It feels like. It feels like the music exists as a vehicle to show off playing the guitar. And the guitar playing is awesome. And the music is awesome. But that's the way around. It feels to me. It feels like they're, you know, those records.
A Chris: Guitarist with some backing.
B Neil: Yeah, those records were pressed to. To show off the guitar. I don't get that here with. With extreme.
A Chris: No, no, it's a ban. And him doing that thing.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: Part of the fabric of that thing.
B Neil: And as much as we. So we kicked off with little girls.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the twiddly, widdly bits at the beginning of that. Which are bonkers. Absolutely bonkers guitar playing. But the vast majority of the album is. There is bits of that in there.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: But the vast majority of. It's just really well structured songs.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then there's bits that they've kind of carved out where Nuno can Go a bit. Bit nuts.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: There. You mentioned Jeff Beck. Yeah, I love Jeff Beck. It doesn't. It's like, for him, it's like the guitar is expressive, but in a different way. And I think across all of these, like, really virtuoso guitar players, I don't imagine that they think for one second about moving their hand on the fretboard.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: I just think it's just this thing that comes out of them and, like.
A Chris: It'S like an extension of the self almost.
B Neil: Yeah. But it's what's in them, and that's kind of the magic, almost. It's kind of that.
A Chris: Yeah. For me, there's him, there's Nuno, and there's Guthrie Gon. And they're the two. For me. Oh, wow. They're the two. The two guys that just for some, somehow.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: You know, I remember my. My grand. Right. My grand used to say, say about Hank Marvin, and she used to say, Hank Marvin could make that guitar speak.
B Neil: Oh, yeah.
A Chris: She. She was really like. That was her thing. She. She associated with that. Like, it was quite good. Hank Marvin seems like a nice man.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: You know, I mean, this. The guitar came a long way after. He obviously opened a huge door for everyone like this. Like. Like Nuno and. And Guthrie, they can make the guitar speak. That. That. Like that. Like that. They're. What they create is as much narrative as it is guitar. It's. It's as much a story as it is a kind of piece of music. And I just think, like, I just. It's that solo in Drive Home, that Steven Wilson song. And then with this, it's the beginning of that. I mean, it's almost like what Hendrix did with the Star Spangled, you know, the stuff that Eddie Van Halen did. And you can sort of see, you know, it's from that lineage of. Of guitar kind of mastery and using guitar as a kind of. I don't know, it's like. It's like a. It's like a fanfare almost, isn't it?
B Neil: Like this.
A Chris: Is this. This kind of like, moment of guitar, like, Eruption is for Van Halen. And then you hear that and go, now this Valhalla. I can imagine Van Halen watching this guy and going, oh, yeah, all right, mate, you've got that one.
B Neil: You know, it feels to me like there are, like. There are guitarists who I think are incredible. It's like Alex Skolnick from Testament, right?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: He's incredible. Like, absolutely incredible. But there's like, this tier above, like, he's He's a. He's like a phenomenal guitar player. Like, just incredible. You see him play. He can play all kinds of different styles, and he's just excellent. Really good at writing music, really good at playing, really competent technically. He's not Nuno.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: And there's a few others I put in here. Eddie. Eddie Van Halen, obviously, Tom Morello.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Do you know that there are these, like. They've. There's just something else.
A Chris: Yeah. It's about the expression of what they do though, isn't it? It's to do with. It's to do with the character of their playing as much. It is about the technique and the. You know, the kind. It's as much about the. I don't know. There's something very human about the way those guys play guitar.
B Neil: I think Nuno particularly as well. I find that he has this ability. He's kind of like a chameleon. So he can play almost with any style. And I've seen. For those lucky. Look. Lucky enough to have seen him play. I've seen him play a few times in different bands and he is never anything but exceptional. He was. He played Black Sabbath, you know, the end.
A Chris: Yes, he did.
B Neil: He played some stuff there. Yeah. Which was like, just. Just incredible. But I've seen him do, like, what, non rock and non hard rock stuff as well, almost pop music. And he's just. I don't know, he just. He just fits in with whichever bunch of musicians you stick him with.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah. It just works.
B Neil: He's got this ability to still be like, virtuoso, twiddly guitar, but not. But not to take it. Not to take it over, necessarily.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Carved out a bit of space for him to do his thing. And then the rest of the time he's just in this supporting role where the music. He starts supporting everybody else. And. I don't know, I just think there's something really cool about him. This record particularly. He was 22, which I find really hard. I do. I think there's an interesting progression with Extreme as well. If you listen to these. The records, certainly the first three, so this one and Pornographiti and then three sides. There's two things that happen for me. One is Nuno, like, in this record, I think you can hear Nuno's influences, like, really clearly. He obviously loves Eddie Van Halen. There's a lot of kind of, you know, copying's the wrong word, but there's. There's. There's a lot of. He's Got a lot of love for Eddie Van Halen's guitar playing. And he's kind of showing how he. He can do that. Yeah, yeah, you can still. Like, his character's still here through this record. Yeah, there's a lot of influences from. From others and then. And also the, like. The lyrics and content here, again, I think are really interesting because as they progress through, like right here on the COVID of the album is all big hair. Lots of, you know, they kind of f. Into the. And they were dumped into the hair metal.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, kind of the. The poisons of the world and you know, all of the kind of big. Big glam bands that we've. Many of which we've covered already on. On this show. But they were different for me. They were. The song titles are. I think if you look at them, you kind of think, oh, yeah, you know, little girls. You think, oh, yeah, this is just a late 80s hair metal band. But when you listen to it, they were talking about the way girls are, like, perceived and treated by boys. Right. Whereas, you know, Motley Crew were not. Motley. Motley Crew were not doing that. Motley Crew were doing it from a slightly different perspective. And I think it's interesting that the, like, the Motley Crue stuff of this era hasn't aged lyrically. Hasn't aged particularly well. If you look at like, girls, girls, girls. And you even doctor Feel Good. Not aged that well.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Like, lyrically, this isn't too bad for me. This. It fits in that era. You kind of think, first of all, like, it might be, but it isn't. Gary Sharon talks about the lyrics on this record being embarrassing.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And. And then. And I was also talking about that progression. So you've got Nuno wearing his heart on his sleeve a little bit here with his influences. Gary's trying to fit in lyrically, trying to fit in with the. His. The other artists, the other kind of hard rock artists around them. And they're. They're from Boston, influenced by Aerosmith. Yeah, this is obvious. The big LA scene that's happening for glam. There's a particular sound, I think, that comes out of Boston. The difference. You know, it's funny. Cause a lot of the bands that come out of LA aren't really out of la. You know, everybody moves there because the.
A Chris: Record companies are all there.
B Neil: I think the thing about Boston is because Ariston's from there, definitely more of an influence. We feel like we have to follow in their footsteps in order to keep everything going. We're Definitely proud of coming out, of just staying home, you know, breaking out of Boston. I think this decade of rock and roll owes. Owes a debt to the boys from Aerosmith, because to Guns N Roses, to probably any of the bands. They're all influenced by us. Definitely influenced by a world just like the rest of them. It's tough not to be influenced by them. They're a very influential band. One of the greatest.
A Chris: Yeah. For sure. Legend.
B Neil: And then you got Pornographiti, which came after.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Now porno graffiti. I think Nuno's found his style at that point. He.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: He sounds like Nuno there. He doesn't sound like Eddie Van Halen. Doesn't sound like anybody. That's Nuno being Nuno. I think he's. He's developed this confidence and style of playing and Gary has developed this ability to. Lyrically, he's being more insightful, I think. And the lyrics are much more thoughtful. Much more, you know, not like rage political, but they're kind of talking about society and, you know, that kind of thing. And that, for me, is where they. Whether, you know, that then pornography. That's extreme. Like, this is that first step. It feels like a prototype.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: I mean, this feels like other. Mean, incredible.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Which is what. Which is why I really wanted to cover it, because it's kind of, you know, we talk about that point in time. Like, Stream would go on to become like a very different band to.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: This one, I think.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Still the same people still then. But this, that. This is that formative, you know, where they first come together.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then pornography is like. I mean, where they get to.
A Chris: If you like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You know, but. And that stays with them because even Six, which came out last year.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It carries on that, you know, I mean, they did. They don't meander too far from where they got to with pornography. It's still that kind of.
A Chris: And I know they had it. They had a bit, obviously, a couple of big breaks and stuff.
B Neil: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A Chris: You know, time, time away. But it's amazing that as a band, they're still going, you know, still doing stuff. Still. Still. And even Nuno, when, you know, when he isn't doing the extreme stuff.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: I don't know about the other guys quite so much, but certainly with him, he was out about doing all sorts.
B Neil: Oh, he does. He'll do anything.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Anybody's like Corey Tay, he'll play anywhere you've got a wedding going on. Just email Corey Taylor or Nuno. And they'll just turn up. But I remember. So when Six, their latest record, Six came out, there was a track on there called Rise.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And it had a solo in a Nuno solo. And it like broke the world. I mean, people were caught. You know, you get like WhatsApp messages from people going, you, you. Have you seen this? I was getting like phone calls like in the middle of the day from people who were just like. Like wetting themselves over, you know, the. The buzz surrounding the band still. And for a band that this, this record, it's. This debut didn't sell.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: But no one bought it when no one really knew much about it. I suppose it's a very.
A Chris: Yeah, I'm. It's interesting what you said, because I suppose around this time, my assumption is, is that this is kind of. You've got Def Leppard coming along, got Bon Jovi coming along. You've got, you know that. That kind of era. Like that, like there's. There's a group of different bands taking the limelight away from just before, weren't they crew and the. That sort of thing. So they were almost like in this limbo y crossover bit before that stuff came through. Is that a fair thing?
B Neil: They were just too late, I think.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Extreme was. So if you think about Def Leppard, I mean, Hysteria, Def Leppard were already a big band by hysteria, which was 87.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You had Guns N Roses. Yeah. Just caught the end of the 80s.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You had. I mean, obviously you'd got like Kiss and Aerosmith and all of those kinds of bands that were already like big. But then across la there were just massive hair metal bands, hard rock bands that were. That were there and established and really, really, you know, so they were already established with a fan base and stuff. And then Extreme came along in 89.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then if you think about like Time wise.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You know, the. The. The world just moves on a little bit because you've got you moving into grunge.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Across. Across the early 1991. 92. You've got kind of Nirvana and you. And.
A Chris: And of course that's where pornography comes in. It just explodes, doesn't it?
B Neil: Yeah, that. That comes in and does. Does incredibly well. Yeah, just below. Absolutely blows up. But it. But it's. I think it's one of those crossovers, like more than words.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: I think they realized that there was a. An appetite, if you like, for those. Yeah, for those slower songs.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: Which other bands, just like Warren nailed this as well, and a bunch of other bands that I think were just really good at this kind of slow ballad. So they did the kind of faster and upbeat. Yeah, you know, virtuoso guitar, kind of, you know, squealy Eddie Van Halen stuff. But then they would do these acoustic tracks and it was there. It was more than words that blew up.
A Chris: Yeah, it went crazy, didn't it?
B Neil: Yeah. Off Pornography. And I remember that. I mean, I remember the. The kids at school or everyone or if you had a guitar, you could play more than. Yeah, we all played more than Worlds because it.
A Chris: But then there. But there were. You know that. There's a number of songs from that era. You know, every. Every Rose is a Storm.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: You'Ve got Swee of Mind. You've got, you know, all these kind of rock ballads.
B Neil: Yeah, that are absolute standards. Huge.
A Chris: And they were all around that. That sort of. Sort of within. Within a few years of each other, weren't they? All of them, like, more.
B Neil: Yeah, yeah, it was. There was a definite appetite for that, which was huge. But, yeah, I mean, it's in. But it's just interesting for me the way this. This record progresses, because there are bits in here that are. I don't know, I just think really, really cool. Like Teacher's Pet, I think, is a really, really cool track.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Mother's really, really, like, super cool. I mean, Mother's kind of like a. Like a classic glam metal.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: The track always kind of feels like it's straight. It could be straight off the strip, you know, it's really, really cool. Yeah, Cool track. And then there are others that just feel slightly different. You know, they've got slightly different tone to them and then. And. But. But that's kind of where. That's where they would go. Yeah, they're kind of not quite as much. Not quite as much of the hair metal stuff. And then they brought some funk in. Yeah, there's a bit of it here too, actually. There's kind of. It's quite funky in places. Some of the bass lines are quite cool.
A Chris: Yeah, but it certainly became that later on, didn't it?
B Neil: It's a bit under the covers a little bit. Yeah. And I don't know whether this was Max or their producer Mac. I don't know whether that was him. Just kind of not bringing that. Yeah. Thinking, oh, this is a. A hair metal band in the late 80s. No one wants to hear funky guitar. Funky bass guitar work. But then that would. That would come on in Pornography, where they would Kind of bring, bring more of that out. But it's here, it's just kind of. There's like a veneer over it. Yeah, quite. It's not this, it's not the shining star. Whereas I think in pornography they let it out of the box a little bit and. Yeah, you know, there's some really. I know there's just some really cool, cool, cool bits in, in, in pornography where they go a bit more funky. But this is like. I don't know, it's not them learning the craft and not learning the craft, but, you know, it's, it's, it's like they're figuring things out. It's an album where looking back on it today. Yeah, it makes sense. You can, you can see that they were figuring things out. They were figuring out who they were and how they wanted to record and, you know, in. Given that they were in the, in the time that it was recorded.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, so they were desperate to fit in, desperate to be successful. So they were like. They were trying to fit in with their peers.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: While trying to figure out who they were.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You know, and then with, with pornographiti, I think they'd kind of, I don't know, it, it Feel that record after this one just feels like they've just gone, well, this is, this is who we are. Yeah, this is who we are.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Like it or lump the confidence if you like to, to bully the producer. Do you know what I mean? Where they're just like, no, no, actually, no, this is how it's going to.
A Chris: Be yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Hey, kid, I'm talking to you what am I supposed to do? You know that you're something special that's something you already knew hey kids got something to say but you won't listen anyway I'll let you out, you, but you.
A Chris: Every day we think your head is.
B Neil: Getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
A Chris: Hey, give some good advice to bring your.
B Neil: British down a size Some honesty would.
A Chris: Suit you better so why don't you.
B Neil: Give it a try?
A Chris: Thank you.
B Neil: Hey kid, you miss it? It's about it a little bit Stepping on that lift up People like you don't even give a. Hey, kid, you have it all Standing proud on top of the world, don't you? Now stop.
A Chris: Bigger than. Bigger and bigger and bigger we think you should be taught some manners Manners, manners.
B Neil: Hey kid, some good advice to bring your britches down a size Somebody else think would serve you better so why don't you give it a try? Hey, kid, with your head up at the cloud.
A Chris: Come out, hey, kitty. Come out, Come down, come down, come down Looking at.
B Neil: If you ask anybody in the record that works with us, we're definitely honest people, we're definitely sincere and we say what's on our mind. And whether sometimes it hurts us or it doesn't hurt us, we'd rather. I'd rather go to bed at night knowing we're doing what we love to do. And if it happens, great. You know, we want it to happen. That's why we're doing this. We wanted to get out as many people, but if it doesn't, I'd rather be happy with what we did. At least know that we did it. All right, we did it what we wanted to do. We weren't being phony about it. We weren't doing something to stay safe and make sure we do that. That instant insta hit, you know, I feel that our songs are not your typical metal stuff, but I think that they are singable and I think that they are capable of being on the radio. I don't think they're like progressive rock. It's not like, yes, we pleased the label with enough songs on this record to go ahead and do some experimentation without them going, oh, no. You know. You know, we made them happy with Decadence, Dance and stuff like that. So that gave us enough control to do some out to Lunch stuff that they would consider. Out to lunch. I always remember when we did Oasis.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: And they went to record Definitely. Maybe twice.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the first recording of it was just crappy.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And they were like. I mean, I don't know. What do you know? I mean, I just write the songs, play the guitar. What? I don't know anything about recording. I don't know what it's supposed to sound like. Don't care.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Do you know what I mean? And, like, there's a. There's a difference. Difference. Where then you. You hear Oasis today about the. The like anal attention to detail that would come for albums after.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: But that first one, they're like. I just.
A Chris: I just wrote the song and recorded it.
B Neil: Yeah, you tell me. You tell me how to record it. I don't know.
A Chris: Yeah, eventually.
B Neil: Yeah, he did. Owen. Yeah, he did. He did the second. He did the second recording eventually, but.
A Chris: He did the second recording of Definitely. Maybe.
B Neil: Yeah. Because the first one was a disaster, wasn't it? Yeah.
A Chris: And then.
B Neil: And involved with the second one. But I think there's some of that here where the band have gone in incredible Guitar players, you know, incredible musicians with the best. Pat Badges are one of the most. My favorite rock names ever.
A Chris: Yeah, I think you. You should like, just rename yourself to Badger.
B Neil: I love it. I was telling Chris about the story that had, like, years and years and years ago, my friend Matt used to call the kettle, like the water otter.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: So it got called the beaver because it was a water otter.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So that's what. So that. So you. The. We would say, oh, go and put the beaver on. And then we had a guy started to work for Matt and was it.
A Chris: That he didn't quite get the joke?
B Neil: Yeah, he didn't quite get the joke and used to get beaver and badger confused. So he would say, trying to fit in, can't put the badger on. And we all thought it was the funniest thing ever. And we were going, you can't call it the badger. The joke is that it's a water otter and that's a beaver. So you put the beaver on, not the badger.
A Chris: Was it at the point, though, where. Where it got us so long you found it really hard to broach it? Yeah, well, he said badger so many times.
B Neil: Yeah. And he was such a nice guy as well. So we did have the conversation like twice. And then. And then he kept calling it the badger. So then, like, only five years later, we're all still calling it the badger. And then people come in. People, like, come in.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And somebody would just say, oh, put the badge on. Why'd you call the kettle the badger? And, well, you know, it doesn't. Guy doesn't work here anymore, but. And it was like. Yeah, it went on and on and on.
A Chris: So I think I've got an idea for a product line.
B Neil: Have you?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Badger, Kettles.
A Chris: Yes. It's brilliant. Badger, everything. Just put. Put it in the badger.
B Neil: Put it.
A Chris: Remember that could be. It could be the fridge, it could be the washing machine.
B Neil: Do you remember the YouTube thing? Bad badger. Badger, Badger, badger, badger, badger mushroom. Yeah, I liked that as well. See, I think he thought that's where we were going with yes.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And it wasn't the water otter in the badger.
A Chris: Sorry, right, I forgot.
B Neil: I've kind of forgot where I was going. But Pat Badger, I really, really like that. Pat Badger. Some people have rock and roll names, don't they?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Born for greatness.
A Chris: Yeah, absolutely.
B Neil: And that's. That's. That's absolutely one of them.
A Chris: That's the question I had, because I don't know. I've not Done any research as ever, obviously. Is it still the same line lineup?
B Neil: Pretty much. I can't remember. I'll have to go and look. I, I, they, there were some lineup changes. They stayed together for the first three records, I think. And then there were some changes musically. I think that this band has something new and fresh to offer to, to an audience. We, we hope to. We've taken our, our influences and become extreme with this mesh of, mesh of bo bodies here. And we hope it's taken a step further and to be around for a long time. So you, so you people can't get rid of us. People in there. All those people in there.
A Chris: I wasn't sure how tonight I was gonna go right, well, because, yeah, we've got the wrong. Like there's one can of Coke Zero. I don't know where the other can is.
B Neil: Okay. It's been. Someone's been in the Bongo Cokes.
A Chris: Yes, I think they have. I think, I think, I think they might have rumbled our Bongo Coke.
B Neil: Who's done that?
A Chris: I don't know. We'll have to keep an eye on it. We'll have to just.
B Neil: I don't like it.
A Chris: I think we'll have to put them in a particular place.
B Neil: Yeah. And see if they move.
A Chris: And then see if they move.
B Neil: I think we could drug them them.
A Chris: So instead of the Coke Zero because they didn't have any at the shop.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: How to buy Coke? Diet Coke.
B Neil: I, I don't mind Diet Coke. I'm okay with that. But then you've got Skittles Sours and then you've got green fruit pastels. Yeah.
A Chris: Cuz they didn't have the red ones in the shop.
B Neil: Well, in the. Over the road. Yeah. That's the only place that's. I've ever, only ever seen red and black ones.
A Chris: Yeah. And I hope that, I hope it's not like a, a problem, you know.
B Neil: Because I think round trees should. We're getting big enough now. Roundtree should send us a box. Come on, round trees, get on with it.
A Chris: Y. Yeah, because we've got. They're all very green tonight, aren't they? But I don't. Yes. Does that mean that this. I don't know if it's like an omen. Is this podcast not gonna be as good or something?
B Neil: I don't know. I don't know how, how do you, how do you judge or score a podcast from good or bad? I don't know how you do it.
A Chris: I don't know. Because it's not the Numbers is it. That doesn't make a difference.
B Neil: I don't care. Some of our podcasts, I just think I really. Because if it makes me laugh and I think it's funny, and. And I. I sometimes when I listen to them back again, I. If it makes me laugh, I kind of think, yeah, I'm okay with that. That's quite good fun. And. I don't know, other times, I just think, you know, you're not. Not quite. Yeah, there, you know, I mean.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I don't know. I just think you. It's like everything, isn't it? You turn up and you do it and you.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You do your best and you. And you go home.
A Chris: You have a try.
B Neil: Yeah, exactly. And part of it is, like, just turning up. And, you know, I do like to think that, like. Like, as we do these. The different styles, I guess of. It's like, because, like, as much of a. Much as an album is a point in time, these podcasts are a point in time for us. Yeah. My back really hurts at the minute, so I'm always off my face on ibuprofen, because I can't. I've really hurt myself.
A Chris: I'm sorry. I'm not laughing at you.
B Neil: That's the funniest thing ever.
A Chris: Like, I'm laughing because of the running gag that Lindsay has.
B Neil: Dad. Right.
A Chris: When we first started doing this, every time. Every time we did a podcast, someone's. One of us had a cold or we'd hurt our leg or our back or. Or something had happened. So it's your back.
B Neil: I mean, I have. True to form, I have. I hurt my back and I did it in a. I was running down the stairs, caught my sleeve on the staircase, and it almost pulled my arm out of the socket. That's kind of what it did.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I thought, oh, that's right.
A Chris: That crunchy feel feeling.
B Neil: It was really bizarre. It was like if you ever twisted. Like I used to dislocate my knee a lot when I was little, running about something. It's that feeling where you. You. You know, you've done something really bad and you know that stingy pains coming.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And it didn't last for very long, but you just thought, oh, it's gonna come, and then it comes and then it goes. It didn't. It just kind of did. It ran down the stairs. Like, it almost felt like my arm had come out of the socket, and I felt it pull down my back, like, just behind the shoulder blade, and I just, like, Stood there like. Like perfectly still, just thinking, this is gonna really hurt. And it didn't. And I was like, oh, got away with that.
A Chris: No, I think that's when it goes really wrong, though.
B Neil: Well, that's what happened. And then it was about a week.
A Chris: Later, beyond the pain threshold.
B Neil: It was about a week later. Yeah.
A Chris: Basically pulled your arm off, mate.
B Neil: Well, then I would sit there on my desk and it feel like my. Like my head felt really heavy, you know, and you move your head around. It's like I feel like I've really hurt my. Hurt myself anyway. It definitely affects my mood.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, when you kind of. I'll be on. I get to about 6, 7 o', clock, and then it starts to hurt. It's getting better.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: You know, and I've got in. I went to physiotherapist. They're horrible people. They just hurt you. All they want to do. I'm really sorry if you're a physiotherapist, but. Oh, my God, they're just. They're just like. They ask you a question. Does that hurt? And all. They would. Because if you say yes. Yeah, they do it more.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah. And if you say.
B Neil: And if you say no, well, they do something else more. Just. Just like hurting people. And then you always come back feeling, like, much more pain.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And they said, no, that's a good thing. It's not. Ideally. Yeah, there wouldn't be any. So I'm not really sure where we're going with this, but, yeah, it's getting better. I've got exercises and I look like an absolute bell end in my office. I have to. I have to go and I have to go and put my chin to my chest. Roll my head around. Yeah. And then I have to put my arms out.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And you do this. There's a lot of this waving I'm demonstrating to Chris. You have to wave your arms around. Right. And so if. If people walk past my office window, because my office is at the front of the house downstairs. So if people walk past, I'm sitting there flapping my arms around, rolling my head around.
A Chris: You're in a really exciting meeting. That's what they think.
B Neil: I don't know what. If anyone saw me doing it, I don't know what they would think I was doing. It's nuts. But. But anyway, the point is, it's a point in time. So each. Each podcast that we do, just like the albums that we review or review or revisit, they were a point in time.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, and everyone's like that. People have, you know, twist their ankles or pull a muscle or feel particularly good. You know, they're. They're, you know, for whatever reason, they're every. They're all human. We're all human and we.
A Chris: We assign those things. So now, every time you listen to extreme now, your shoulder's gonna hurt.
B Neil: Yeah, that's the way it works. I don't. I was talking to my friend who's a bit older than me this week, and I was complaining about it, and I think I said, like, nonchalantly, something like, yeah, I'll be all right, you know, and he was like, yeah, have you been to the doctor? And I said, well, I did the physiotherapist thing and, you know, I don't feel like I need to go to the doctor. And then he kind of said, you know, one of these days, as you get older, these things just don't go away. What? They suggested that that's. That's what getting old is like. When you're young. Hurt yourself. Hurts a lot. You wake up the next morning and it's gone. And then as you get a bit older, that lasts for a few days, maybe, you know, and then. And then as you get old, you approach your 50s, you don't have to do anything. You just get out of bed and something hurts and then it goes away after a few days. Then it says now, as you get a bit older than that, that it just never goes. You'll develop a pain or something. And it just. That's it.
A Chris: It stops forever.
B Neil: It's forever. Then I was going, thanks. That's just what I want to do. It's lovely. Thank you. Giving me the. That's what life's about, isn't it?
A Chris: Yeah. Pain.
B Neil: Well, something like that. It doesn't.
A Chris: Do you think?
B Neil: I. I saw a video of Metallica playing. Playing this week, and it hit me massively there, just how old James Hetfield.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And how you. I mean, how physical playing in a metal band is. And you just think that's why. I mean, I got my signed copy of Megadeth's album.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: This week.
A Chris: That's new, isn't it?
B Neil: And I get it. Dave Mustaine said, look, I just don't want to do it. I. You know, we'll. We'll. We are. You know, maybe we'll do music, maybe we won't. I don't know.
A Chris: But.
B Neil: But. And Slayer obviously finished up and stuff.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And you. You know, I just. I get It. I absolutely get it.
A Chris: It's just.
B Neil: You can't. You can't. Your body lets you down after a bit.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: So there you go.
A Chris: Yeah, that's happy.
B Neil: It is.
A Chris: Sam.
B Neil: Fantasy. Subject to finding language. It's so hard to be between.
A Chris: Graduated at the highest degree.
B Neil: One thing I got good to me was a fight. Chemistry. I don't know. Of the time. And usually I would just be, you know, working on something on a four track or an eight track musically and. And pretty much put the whole song together, you know, even, you know, try to get all the instruments in there. So that way, you know, when you present it, I just give it to Gary in an act. I can't write a lyric to save my life. And I give it to Gary and he. He does his thing, you know, and. And it really works out great. I mean, when we were in previous bands before we actually met each other inside of work, I mean, I never had written like this ever. You know, I mean, it was just like. I write a couple songs a year, if I was lucky. The chemistry just. I mean, we just start writing and writing and writing and it's just like. We just don't stop, you know, I mean, it's not. We don't sit down and say, let's write today. Usually just comes and, you know. Yeah. I feel very lucky.
A Chris: So. Considering the last podcast we did on metallic was 17 hours long.
B Neil: It was 17 hours long. Yes.
A Chris: Should we have a slightly quicker one tonight?
B Neil: Yes. To the facts. Facts, facts. I'm gonna go through my facts list. I have to be honest, I should have cleaned my glasses. One's a bit murky, so if I stutter a little bit, it's because I can't quite read my own words. So. The band is Extreme. Released this album March 14, 1989. It has in it Gary Sharon on vocals. Nuno Betancourt, guitar. Pat Badger, who we've discussed, has the best name in rock.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: On the bass. And then Paul Geary was drums. It was recorded in 1988. Went out on a. M. Sad because.
A Chris: He'S got a normal name. And the other guys have got.
B Neil: Like, you guys with your cool names. I've already got a dull name.
A Chris: He's got a really normal name. He's like someone who'd be at the pub.
B Neil: Someone from South. I can imagine. Yeah. I. I knew someone called Gary at school.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you seen Paul? Gary's new car? You know, it's that kind of conversation.
B Neil: It would. It would be in Mondeo, wouldn't it. Whereas Pat Badger. Pat Badger would have like.
A Chris: You have a Triumph TR7.
B Neil: Oh, yeah. He would win. He like GT6. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And then Nuno. What would Nuno have?
A Chris: Oh, he'd have a Ferrari or something, wouldn't he?
B Neil: Red.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Battery Ferrari. And Gary would have. Yeah, I can imagine him in an old Porsche. Yeah, he's got that look about him.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Anyway, label, A and M Records, they were massive.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And it's interesting for me, I think it's interesting anyway, that this went out on A M. A lot of very big artists on there as well. And. And obviously I think this was. A lot of. This was around the buzz around Nuno.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So I think they'd seen and thought, yeah, this is. This is pretty cool. It's the right length. 45 minutes, 11 tracks. There's nothing long here. We talked about this last week. Well, not last week. We talked about this in the last show with Metallica's Master of Puppets.
A Chris: Who?
B Neil: The uneducated Metallica, the thrashback band. But they were a thrash band. But they weren't a thrash band when they were doing that. Don't get eight minute thrash songs. Sorry.
A Chris: I still find it bananas that that's one of your favorite albums.
B Neil: It is. I think that one and. And I think Lightning and. And Puppets are two of the best albums ever recorded. But it's interesting, like, if you compare against what like Exodus and Overkill and I mean, the whole glut of other kind of Bay Area thrash bands were doing at the time. They weren't doing eight minutes minute songs with like complicated layered arrangements and stuff, whereas Metallica were. But these. I know this album for me is. Is quite. It's fits very much in hard rock. Although they would go on to do other weird stuff. Right. So Extreme would go on and develop their stuff here. They were trying to fit in. I think they were trying to fit in with what the other hard rock and glam bands were doing, which I think is. I think it's interesting and it gives the album like a certain feel to it. Singles Kid E Little Girls, Mother Don't Want To Go To School Today and Play With Me. Kid Ego is interesting. Gary Sharon said he's embarrassed about the lyrics of Kid Ego, which I think is really interesting. The rest of it, I don't know. It's. It's a fantastic selection of singles. Play With Me is what got us here. We talked about that because it was on Strange Things and it was in.
A Chris: More importantly, it was in Berlin.
B Neil: Said, oh, it's one of the best things I used to. What?
A Chris: Right. I have to say this right now, Now, Bill and Ted. I watched that on loop when I was a child. Oh, yeah. Like, literally it would stop, I would rewind the tape and it would start again.
B Neil: Just that and Beavis and Butthead for me.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I. Yeah, loved a lot of that.
A Chris: It was the most incredible, like, film.
B Neil: There is this thing here with Play With Me as well, where it's got, like, classical bits in it. And then it was in the Bill and Ted movie. It was used with Beethoven playing. And then I really, really, really cool charts. 300000 copies were sold, which is not that many. It's not really reached 38 on the mainstream rock charts in the US did not do that well is certainly when compared to Pornographiti and. And, yeah, I mean, it just went off, didn't it? Yeah. Slightly lesser Three Sides, but that was, you know, that was more than Words and Get the Funk out and, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But, yeah, that one absolutely went. Went bonkers. The band are from Boston.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And you do Same place as Aerosmith. And it's fascinating. They. They were big fans of Aerosmith and eventually got to support them on the Pump Tour. So the Aerosmith were big fans and ended up ending up supporting them. They were compared massively to Van Halen.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the band were big Van Halen fans. Gary Sharon would actually go on to be the temporary vocalist in Van Halen. I think it was Van Halen 3. He recorded.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But, yeah, absolutely bonkers the name. So Gary Sharon and drummer Paul Geary had been playing together in a band called the Dream. And they were told they had to change their name. And then one thing and another, they were all in different bands playing around different areas. And they got in a fight, apparently. And then the rumor is that they kind of all, like, got to know each other after the fight.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And decided they want to be in a band as you do. They liked the name. They were looking for a name and came up with the concept of Extreme.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: As in X Dream. And then they liked the idea of Extreme. I don't know how true that is. It's on Wikipedia. I don't know how true that is, but I love it. I really, really like that kind of nuts stuff, I guess. It's really quite cool. Produced by Reinhold Mack, who. All kinds of interesting stuff a lot. I mean, like back into the 70s, so he did like Scorpions, Rolling Stones, Deep Purple, David Coverdale. Who's. Do you remember what David Coverdale's first solo album was called? White Snake. Well, say it. Yeah, proper dig. David Coverdale can do anything, can't he? I love it. I just. I do love it.
A Chris: One of the greatest listening experiences of my life is David Coverdale's first Rock On Tours interview. Oh, it's one of the best things ever.
B Neil: He's wild. He's absolutely, like.
A Chris: We know, like, proper.
B Neil: So unpredictable and he's just. He's like, so not politically correct. He's like. Of all of the, you know, the whole. The Woke movement and stuff, like, David Coverdale, like, doesn't know. He doesn't know what that means. It's just like. But he's such a lovely guy. Yeah, he's not trying to offend anybody. He's just like, so. I don't know. This just. He's brilliant. I love him to pieces, but he's really funny on X, if you're on X. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very.
A Chris: I wonder if he's, like, hammed that up over the years, you know, I mean, like, he's sort of become this character more and more because, yeah, it could be this version of himself more.
B Neil: Never quite sure, are you? But I, I, Yeah, I love him. I think he's just. He's just, you know, really genuine. He's one of those people where, you know, there are people that, like, I don't know, they kind of. They always stay on the right side of the line. So, yeah, they say they're, but, you know, that they're malicious and not, you know, they're not very nice people. People David Coverdale's like, are so over the line of, like. But he's such a lovely guy. He just gets away with it. He's like, just. I love him. Anyway, so that, that was done. So. So Reinhold Mack was a producer and he worked with all these other people. Interestingly and curiously. We'll come on to this. He did Queen as well, plus a bunch of other really, really cool stuff. Which Queen stuff did you do then? Oh, going by the game. Okay. Oh, what else did he do? I'm squeezing. Oh, that's interesting. He was record. So he did. Yeah, did some light. So he did live magic. He did Brian May stuff. He knew Brian May really well.
A Chris: That was the gag you said about that, about Nuno.
B Neil: So apparently in the studio. So Reinhold Mack is German, and I. This. I work with a lot of Germans and I, I. There's something, like, I find really funny about this Kind of German sense of humor, the way they deliver this kind of matter of fact stuff.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the rumor is that they were in the studio and Nuno was really trying hard to perfect this, this solo. And he'd been doing it all day, over and over and over again. And apparently Ryan Holt said to him, if you don't get it this time, I'm going to call Brian May to do it for you. And then just think, can you imagine that? Like Crush the poor 22 year old Nuno? To be fair, he's excellent. I mean, I'm sure, like, Brian May's an excellent guitarist, but he's not Nuno Betancourt, is he? I like that. I like. Brian May's a nice guy as well.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Isn't he? I like him. He knows badgers.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: He does.
A Chris: There we go.
B Neil: He does, yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite Twitter arguments was Brian. Brian May and Jeremy Clarks and arguing about badges. That was brilliant. Oh, it's a great time to be alive, isn't it? Isn't it? Anyway, Reinhold did. Did Meatloaf as well. He did A Kind of Magic by Queen. Yeah. And he did loads of stuff, which I think is really interesting. And it goes to the lovely gag about Brian May. What else did I get to. Oh, the artwork. All work's interesting for this album, for me.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's like. It's literally just lemon with hair.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: But the. The logo was drawn by Gary Sharon and Paul Geary. Now I have a real soft spot lot for a time when bands would draw their own logo. Deaf Def Leppard famously did it. Slayer did you know, Anthrax, you know, Metallica did it. They would literally go and spend ages sketching and coming up with ideas. I don't think that happens so much anymore.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: And if you're in a band and you go anywhere near chat GPT for your logo, just stop doing what you're doing. Go. Just go and do something else. Yeah. There's a. There's a thing, I think, for me where there's like an authenticity and I know there's just something really lovely about that, that somebody. They're literally sitting at home in their bedrooms with the crayons.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I really like that when it was initially released, this album was released, I guess it got a mixed review.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Lots of the magazines at the time were absolutely slating. Anything vaguely hard.
A Chris: Right.
B Neil: Rock and glammy at this point. Like 89 90. It was.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know, they thought it was a little bit Naff. Yeah. So. But. But this didn't it. This kind of got mediocre reviews from the. From the critics. Didn't get great reviews. No. Not like pornographiti. Got good reviews.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: This one did not. Although it did land well on mtv. Supporting tours, like I said, they did all kinds of stuff, but the really big one for me was the Aerosmith's Pump tour. I didn't know they went on that.
A Chris: No, no.
B Neil: But obviously that got them. That got him a lot of visibility, which.
A Chris: They were huge at that time. When the Arizona on the Pump.
B Neil: On that Pump tour, they would have been like one of the biggest bands on the planet.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: So that was mega. They were like. A lot of these bands, like, absolutely adored in Japan.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And there's tons of stories of them where they. They talk about landing in Japan. You know, I'm playing to, you know, a few hundred people in US and then landing in Japan and there was like an army of.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: People waiting to see them. And they'd never played in the country before.
A Chris: No. Yeah.
B Neil: Which I think that was, again, really interesting. Where else did I want to go to with this? Oh, we've already talked about where it was been. When you say so. Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, which is really, really cool. If you're young and you've not watched. Watched that.
A Chris: You must. You absolutely.
B Neil: 1989. Yeah. Very cool.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Very, very cool.
A Chris: And Bogus Journey. They're both good.
B Neil: Yeah. The new one is all right and watched it, but. Yeah, I'd go with the originals. They're. They're very, very good. Very funny. Yeah. Yeah, they're just. They're good.
A Chris: Yeah. I should. I should watch the new one just to have watched it. But then I feel the same like that as I do with the Ghostbusters stuff.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: I really like Ghostbusters 1 and 2.
B Neil: Ghostbusters 1 is so funny.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, they did. All newer ones, they were like.
B Neil: I like. I was trying to. Trying to get my kids to watch them.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And they just say they're so slow.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah, that's what it is.
B Neil: If you watch genuinely, you watch. You go. Go and watch Ghostbusters.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Now and then, go and watch, like, anything that's aimed at, like, kids today.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: It's just fast today stuff is like, bang, bang, bang. There's always something happening. Always something, something, something going on.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the beauty of Ghostbusters, there would just be bits where like. Do you know what I mean? Like the. There wasn't somebody talking. Something happening. There was. There was time for you to think and get a feel for the. The space that it was in and stuff.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Don't get that anymore. So he's on Stranger Things also. So he's on Bill and Ted's excellent Adventure and also on Stranger Things, which I liked. I do like Stranger Things. I think it's Dungeons and Dragons and Kids and all that and I kind of. I quite like that. I got. It was a bit. Bit cool. And I do like, particularly. We talked about this last time, particularly liked the attention to detail for music. I think they chose some absolutely banging music through the whole of Stranger Things. Really, really good.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Five things you might not know from the blog. We've covered all this already, I think. So it started with a fight. So they were all in a pub, annoy other got in a fight and then started a band. That's the way it happened. Extreme is the. Is X Dream. I don't know if you know whether that's true or not. Yeah, tell us because I don't know. And there's a lot of these things you read on Wikipedia. And it was when I interviewed. Who was I interviewing? I can't remember who it was. Oh, my brain is just like properly misfired. Anyway, I was interviewing somebody and I literally had their Wikipedia in front of me on my tablet and I was like, I'm going to ask you some questions from your Wikipedia and I want you to tell me. And the half of it was just nonsense. Who goes on to somebody else's Wikipedia and. And write stuff about them that's not true. Anyway, Gary Sharon still cringes at Kid Ego. He thinks it's one of the ones that hasn't. Hasn't necessarily aged that well. There's a bunch of classical music on this record. Play With Me and stuff. It's got Mozart's Ronda Alat Turker, the Turkish.
A Chris: Very good.
B Neil: Nuno was very, very cool at that kind of thing. And then the ballad Watching and Waiting is supposedly written about the crucifixion of Christ.
A Chris: All right.
B Neil: Which is an odd topic for a 1989 hair metal record. Yeah, I think.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I imagine Slayer doing that. But not. Not Extreme. Yeah, we got. I think that's kind of got everything we need to cover before we begin to wrap up. Yeah.
A Chris: Can I just speak very quickly about how unusual Rocket is?
B Neil: Yeah, of course you can.
A Chris: It's weird.
B Neil: It is weird.
A Chris: It's really like.
B Neil: It's like a rock opera, I think. Yeah, but. But that's where they would go. That's what I was talking about. Right. Where this album is fitting in with the norms and this album's fitting in with the hard rock, hair metal norms of how you write a song.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And, like, Reinhold had. You know, he was producing it like that.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And the songs were like that. But then you had these, which just were like.
A Chris: It's a proper curveball to me, I think.
B Neil: Yeah. But that, for me, that's where, like, Pornographiti is a rock opera. It's a story about a boy trying. You know what I mean? There's a whole story to it. And three, There are stories across the record for these days.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Concept pieces almost. And. And. But there are hints here that.
A Chris: Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's interesting because you. Yeah. In some of the interviews we've been listening to, they do speak about that, how the stories and the concepts of the albums kind of emerge as they go through.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: And actually, I. I've never thought of an extreme album as a concept album.
B Neil: No, you don't.
A Chris: But evidently it is. Evidently, it's got. It. It's got a narrative and a. Yeah. It's not like an Operation Mind Crime, is it? You don't get that same sort of.
B Neil: Well, we did. It's only when we actually did Operation Mind Crime, I. I realized what the story was.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: And I'd loved that album for such a long time, and I knew it was a concept album. I just couldn't care less what the concept was about. And it was only when we dug into it that I kind of realized. Got the story. And then the album takes on this extra.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: Level, this similar. With me with Dark side of the Moon, as you read about it, and it's this kind of story of birth and life and death and all. And you just. Oh, yeah, yeah. And similarly with.
A Chris: With.
B Neil: With Pornographiti, I. I don't think he's here, like, in this album. I don't. But. But like, you say, like, particularly that track is. It has that, like. You say that rock opera kind of feel to it, and again, I think it helps that Reinhold had produced Queen.
A Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
B Neil: And. And because there's. There's a definite thing here where there's, like. I think if it had been produced too thickly and heavily, like a Motley Crue record. Yeah. I'm not sure that would have come across that well.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Because it would have been so easy to just kind of go, well, we've got a squiggly guitarist. Let's just compress everything, you know?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: You know what I mean? And make it. Make it all sound like, you know, the guitar tones, like, lovely on this really wet sound. It's kind of this kind of, I don't know, flamboyant. Like guitars didn't sound like if you. If you roll forward even to like 91. Nobody's guitar sounded like this. Except Nuno still did a little to. To some degree, but it was toned down a little bit. But for me, this was like a kind of peak wet reverby.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: You know what I mean? Squealy. Every. Like every. Every 30 seconds, there's some kind of squeal or something going on.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Like really flamboyant and extravagant guitar tones. Just peak 80s.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Kind of guitar work. I think it would have been easy to just zone in on that entirely and. And. And lose some of the. Lose some of the rest here. But they didn't. And look at. I mean, interestingly, the porno graffiti doesn't. You know, they didn't. They didn't go down that path of being just like, you know, bigger hard rock band. You got a. There's a. There's a. Like a delicate layering to point graffiti, I think, which. Quite cool.
A Chris: Shall we. I think we should play. Play with me. Yeah.
B Neil: Oh, yeah.
A Chris: Because we haven't played that yet. And that's really important that we got to play that. And then we should talk about next week, shall we?
B Neil: Yeah, let's do that.
A Chris: All. Right.
B Neil: Do you want to play.
A Chris: Ram, Sam? What's next then?
B Neil: Three doors down, Better Life.
A Chris: That was different from five minutes ago.
B Neil: It was. I wanted to do White Snake 1987, because we were talking about David Coverdale, but I've changed my mind because I read in the news that Brad Arnold died of cancer yesterday. David before and A Better Life was released on this day 26 years ago.
A Chris: This very day.
B Neil: This very day. And I like it. It's got kryptonite on it. It's got Better Life on it. It's got all of stuff. It's cool. It's cool album.
A Chris: I don't know it.
B Neil: Super simple and. Yeah, super simple record. Very catchy. It was huge. It was like American radio friendly rock. Massive, massive album. Really, really cool. Huge hit singles.
A Chris: Yeah. You just played a. And it was like. Oh, yeah, I recognize.
B Neil: I want to welcome Dead Simple. You know, it's. Yeah, I guess it just goes. It just goes to show you that you don't need like a million. A lot of the albums that we do are super complicated and intricate and some of them are not. I don't know, it's a, it's a nice one for me today. Yeah, yeah, let's do, let's do that, let's do that. And then that will be next week, assuming we get back on schedule. Because we're, we're a bit rubbish, aren't we? The minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's, let's, let's do, let's do.
A Chris: I'm, I'm better now.
B Neil: I'm not ill. You're not ill?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah. Cuz I've been ill since like before Christmas.
B Neil: Well, I'm hoping it's messed up, my running a little bit as well. Like I can't, I can run. If I have, I can run all right. But then it hurts my back afterwards. So, so I'm trying to do a little bit of, I'm trying to like run and not hurt myself and it's, it's hard work in it.
A Chris: The problem is then is you hold yourself different and funny and then I.
B Neil: Put straight somewhere else and yeah, I'm just falling apart. That's what it is. But just stop trying, mate. I'm just determined not to let. Because I've done. My running's doing all right. I'm getting, you know, I'm doing okay with that now and, and I'm getting to a point where I can run and I don't want, you know what I mean? I don't want to let that go. And I'm like, and I'm really annoyed. Like, like I'm annoyed.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And I view, I view my body as just this vehicle that carries my brain around.
A Chris: Yes. Yeah.
B Neil: And I'm just like, I just want to change it. Yeah, it's rubbish.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I'm going to change it for something else.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: But yeah, next week will be even better.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And it'll be good.
A Chris: Yeah, your back will be better.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: And then I'll still not be poorly, hopefully.
B Neil: No, that's cool. Well, I, I, it's about that time of year, isn't it, where the colds come back.
A Chris: Yes.
B Neil: Because the kids, the kids will go off for half term and then they'll mingle in between the different schools and then they, then they swap germs, aren't they? So.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: Normally for us we get like, we, we don't normally get colds back from the kids.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah.
B Neil: At that time.
A Chris: Just avoid them.
B Neil: I think you're a teacher.
A Chris: Just put them, put them in the child.
B Neil: You're not allowed to do that. Somebody go, I'm not doing computers today. Imagine the look on my boss's face. I go like, no, no, not doing computers. I want to do something else. I want to go and plant tomatoes or something. I don't know. What do you do? What? I keep hearing in the news this week that like AI is killed, like my entire profession.
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: I don't, I don't know what I'm going to do.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: So if you've got any ideas right in, tell us.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: If you got a job. I, I like welding. Really?
A Chris: Like, well, if you do welding.
B Neil: Yeah.
A Chris: And I'll do blacksmithing. Oh, we could just have a whole like metal based industry.
B Neil: We could do the most epic stuff. Couldn't we have a YouTube channel?
A Chris: Yeah, that'd be great.
B Neil: Because I could say, hey guys, welcome back to the channel. I've always wanted, I've always wanted to say, like genuinely say, hey guys, welcome back to the channel.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: That's what they say, is it?
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: If you do that.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I always like, as soon as I hear a YouTuber say that, I switch off. Isn't that bad?
A Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
B Neil: That's really just.
A Chris: Hey guys. Just that.
B Neil: Hey guys.
A Chris: Gone.
B Neil: I don't like, hey guys. I don't like welcome back to the channel.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: I don't like any of that.
A Chris: No.
B Neil: It just feels like so insincere.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: If you want to say that to anybody.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: When I was a kid, if you'd have said, hey guys, welcome back, you'd have been punched. Someone would have genuinely lamped you. Chinned. You'd be chinned. Someone would have genuinely lamped you. My. Both of my boys. Really funny. They, they keep asking about when I was at school.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And then they said, oh, someone got in trouble at school this week because when, when some, somebody was running in the corridor and they fell over and as a bit of a giggle, someone got all of the coats and threw it. They'd hurt themselves. They'd fallen over. Yeah. And then someone had got all the coats and threw the coats on them.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And they got in a lot of trouble.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: And they go, what would, what would have happened in your day as well, a bit similar. But everyone jumps on you.
A Chris: Pylon.
B Neil: Yeah. So. So if you hurt yourself and everyone just went, well, someone would pile on and then, and then everyone would literally just their entire body weight on top of you and you'd hear like bones cracking and stuff. Different time back then.
A Chris: Yeah.
B Neil: Simpler times.
A Chris: Simpler times.
B Neil: It's probably what my back hurts, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, very good. Anyway, it's getting quite late now, so shall we do one? Thanks for listening. Thank you, as always. And like and subscribe. I don't know. I'm sure you can do. I don't know. You do whatever you want. Do you know what? That's. That should be the. The unofficial motto. Just do whatever you want. Do what you want. If you want to sub. If want to subscribe, don't. I don't know what. Can you subscribe to pod? You can subscribe to podcasts.
A Chris: Do what you want.
B Neil: Well, exactly. You can do what you want. Be like a cat.
A Chris: Yeah, that's it.
B Neil: Be a cat. Cats don't like and subscribe, do they? They just screw you. I'll like and subscribe what I want. Yeah, it won't be you. Anyway, thanks for listening and have a good time and we will see you next week. Sorry.