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Prong.
Oh, God, we're doing cleansing.
It's dead good.
The thing is about this is this is one of your favourite all-time albums.
Yeah, I've got this on every, yeah, I've got loads of copies of this.
And I feel really bad because I haven't properly listened to it.
Because I've had a really busy week.
Two weeks, because it was two weeks ago, I think, when we did this last.
Was it two weeks or last week?
I don't know.
It feels, it's ages.
Something happened.
It's weird, though.
It's like a time vortex in here.
Because when you're in here, it feels like you've never left.
But then there's been, obviously, some time has passed since we've been here.
But yeah, I think two weeks.
Two weeks.
And I can't remember last week whether it was my fault or your fault.
No, it was my fault.
Was it?
Yeah, at this time of year, it's always my fault.
Yeah, you're all out playing Christmas in there, aren't you?
Yeah, I actually had my Christmas jumper on that I was going to wear for this, but I thought
it's not particularly rock and roll.
No.
So I thought it's probably not the best idea.
It's rubbish, isn't it?
Yeah.
I don't like that.
I've got a Dillinger Escape Plan Christmas jumper.
Is that what it is?
Yeah, which the family don't.
Well, I'd say the family don't like.
Oh, you've not got it on now?
No.
You've got to have you.
No, no.
But they, yeah, apparently it's not Christmassy.
Isn't it?
No.
I'm like, it is.
Yeah, but it's called a Christmas jumper, isn't it?
Yeah.
Is it made of that wool stuff?
It's an ugly, yeah, it's a proper woven, ugly Christmas jumper, which has a Dillinger Escape
Plan on it.
Yeah.
It's so good.
They only made a handful.
I think it is Christmas then.
I love it.
I've never washed it.
Do you think it might be something to do with that?
I only wear it once.
I wear it once a year.
And then I put it back in.
How many years would you wear it then before washing it?
I don't know.
I've had it three years now.
Well, what I do is I put it on the hanger, put it back in the wardrobe.
Yeah.
A year later, it's fine.
That's the way it is.
Self-cleaning.
It's brilliant.
Dillinger a self-plan.
What?
Dillinger a self-plan.
Yeah.
Escape plan.
All of that.
Self-cleaning Christmas jumper.
Yeah.
There we go.
I've got lots of things to offload on you now because we've not seen you for a week.
So guess what I did last night?
Go on, guess.
You never guessed.
I reckon you cleaned your car.
I did clean my car yesterday, yeah, because I put it back.
Yes.
It's been a way.
It had to have a wheel bearing.
But you know what?
When you have old cars and you take old cars to people that look after old cars,
you always get this, oh, but.
So they did my wheel bearing because it sounded a bit manky.
Yeah.
And then I got this, oh, but you know, while we do this, you could do this sensor and we
could do that.
So they did all that anyway.
Yeah.
Okay.
So it was away for two weeks.
And I missed it a lot.
Yeah.
So I got it back and it got dirty on the drive home.
So I had to wash it.
Yes.
So I did that.
Can I just say, you towel drive your car.
I do.
That was what you just said.
I do towel drive.
My car doesn't even get cleaned.
Does it not?
No, never.
I love it.
There's something.
Sometimes I go to my mum's and dad's house.
Yeah.
And then I might leave the car there.
Hoping they'll clean it.
And then it's clean.
When I go and pick it up.
That's your dad, isn't it?
He does that.
I like cleaning cars.
Yeah.
I like nice cars.
Yes.
I mean, I wouldn't clean, you know.
Mine.
No, there's a whole bunch of cars.
Mostly Vauxhalls that I wouldn't clean.
But yeah, it's nice.
I get it there.
I snow foam it.
I have a cup of tea.
You'll watch it.
I like this.
I've got this idea of having my own YouTube channel.
Yeah.
Where I literally snow foam the car.
Yeah.
And then what I do is I do like ASMR style slow motion.
Oh, wow.
Of it just slowly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Millions of people have watched that, mate.
Oh, God.
It's so therapeutic.
I just honestly, I just sit there with my cup of tea.
I'm watching the soap really slowly just going and it drips down.
It's incredible.
So I do that.
And then, but that's not what I was excited about.
No, sorry.
I was excited because I went to Silverstone for the lap of lights.
Oh, I saw Liz share something about that.
It was dead good.
What is it?
It is.
You take your normal car and then you drive around the lap.
So, you know, you can go to places at Christmas and they do like illuminations.
Yes.
Like the, what am I thinking I need to go to?
So, the Heights of Abraham, if anyone knows who that is.
In that log.
Yeah.
You can go there and do it.
The Arboretum.
Yeah.
Here, the National Arboretum.
They do it as well.
Oh, they've got one.
And then.
Burton on Trend's going to have one.
Is it?
Yeah.
I bet you're doing it, aren't you?
Yeah.
Just me and my torch.
So, you go and it's like fluorescent tubes and that and things move around and lasers and
stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you walk through it and it looks really pretty.
It's a big deal now, isn't it?
These light shows.
Oh, they're dead good.
And you can have a sandwich at the end of it, which is what I go for, which is really
good.
Yeah.
Anyway, we went to Silverstone Lapa Lights and you could drive your car.
You go on the circuit and you drive around.
Brilliant.
And there's like lasers and lights and it's really exciting.
Oh, I see.
It's dead good.
Oh, that's really good.
That was really good.
So, I did that.
Yeah.
And I've been decorating.
Yeah.
So, we discussed last time we did this, I've been listening to Suicidal Tendencies.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Quite a lot.
That was the last one, wasn't it?
Yeah.
I do that a lot.
I've been filling in a lot of holes.
Yeah.
Been a lot of sanding.
Yeah.
A lot of listening to music.
I ordered some records.
That's a surprise.
It is, isn't it?
Do you know what?
I bought myself a copy of Suicidal Tendencies, Lights, Camera, Revolution.
Oh, really?
The last one we did.
Yeah.
It just took a while to come.
I ordered it.
And then, but do you know what I have ordered?
I've ordered Buck Cherry's 15.
Oh, cool.
Which I love.
And they've done a repress in red and I've ordered that as well.
So, that's come, which I'm excited about.
I've not listened to it yet, but I'm excited about that.
I've got to cover that.
It's 2001, I think.
Yes.
15.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we could definitely do that.
Not yet.
Next year.
Next year is a dead good album, that is.
So, I'm excited to do that.
We've got a 25-year limit on.
Not limit.
Yeah, it's got to be 25 years old and we like it.
Yeah.
That's, or we don't not dislike it.
Yeah.
We don't not, just don't, you can't not, not like it.
Yeah.
Because over time, that means that we can do more albums.
We'll never run out of albums until we're dead.
Yeah.
Can you imagine?
Yeah.
We could do it.
We could do it until we're dead.
I don't think we're ever going to run out of albums.
I think we're at that point where the, you know, if we did this in like the 50s.
Yeah.
I think you'd run out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because they didn't do that many albums.
There's that lovely graphic.
It's like a hockey, it's like a hockey stick where.
Yes, yeah.
Oh, the number of albums released.
Yeah, it shows the albums released per year.
Yeah.
And then it kind of, it goes along.
And because like, imagine like in the 60s and 70s, you had to go and pay to go into a
studio and, and then it had to be pressed on and it would only go out on vinyl or tape
or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so you had to pay.
There's so much money involved.
And then as we went into the 80s, they got a little bit, you know, it started to get
a bit cheaper.
In the 90s, everything went digital, didn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So like the beginning, the beginning to the end of the 90s, by the time you got to the end
of the 90s, anyone could record anything.
If you got an Amiga or whatever, you could do whatever you wanted.
And then it, and then 2000s, Pro Tools.
And then it ramps, yeah, as you go through the 2000s, and now it's, it's incredible.
Now the, I haven't looked at it for the, there's that, that chart, but.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
The thing that, going off piece, we're not even started yet.
It's really unlike us, isn't it?
It is, yeah.
I, I do wonder, because I keep hearing bands say that they're not releasing albums anymore.
They're just going to do EPs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I like that idea.
Yeah.
It's like, it's like, well, I'm not going to do it.
Now, I'm an album person, so I always get a bit sad about that.
I think I like albums as well.
But I think if you're just releasing like songs.
Yeah.
And a collection of songs, an EP is good.
Yeah.
But if you're creating like, there's something about an album that's like a collection that's
curated in such a way that it's actually a kind of conceptual idea.
Right, if there's like a story to it or something.
Sort of, yeah.
But more like the ethos.
It's got an ethos to it.
And all of the songs kind of stick together as a body of work.
Yeah.
In a particular way.
It's the body of work thing for me.
That's what I like about it.
It's kind of like, it's like, this is where, as an artist, this is where I am at this point
in time.
It's a folder with a shared identity, yeah.
Yeah, this is what I've done.
Yeah.
And then you know that's going to change in two years' time.
They're going to be slightly different.
Yes.
And it's nice.
I don't know.
It's kind of a, I like an album.
The thing with Prong.
Prong.
Because they're good.
Because I didn't know, I didn't know, you know, there's some weeks where I come and I'm
thoroughly prepared.
When was this?
About six months ago, I was one prepared once.
When you're coming up and you're prepared, I'm like, what's going on with you?
What's happened here?
But tonight, I'm honestly, I haven't, this is how bad it is.
But bear in mind, we chose the album two weeks ago.
I haven't actually listened to it in full.
I've literally had a flick through.
This album is, they...
The first I heard from them was in 1990.
They did an album called Beg to Differ.
Because they're New York guys, aren't they?
Yeah, they are.
But they, their sound has always been, they were kind of like hardcore thrashy, a little
bit, kind of a bit hardcore-y.
They were never metally at the beginning.
No.
And they went through this kind of weird crisscross-y thing where they, their style, as their style
changed.
Yeah.
Like they started to build a bit of momentum, like in this kind of hardcore world, you know,
but it was quite underground.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kind of in the kind of grindcore and thrashy world, that was the community that kind of
quite liked them.
Yeah.
And then they did, I think it's probably with Prove You Wrong, they started to bring
in more industrial and electronic elements.
Yeah, yeah.
In 1991.
Yeah.
Now, you've got to imagine that like the new metal stuff came later down the line.
That's much later, isn't it?
So this was a total jarring thing.
Yeah.
People weren't expecting it really.
And they lost, lost a lot of fans when they, when they did that.
Because they were thrash originally.
Yeah.
Because they were doing, they were like around the place.
They were doing like shows with Metallica, weren't they?
Yeah.
See, well, they, yeah, they were.
They were.
Or was that later?
Yeah, later really.
It was kind of the, yeah.
Well, I don't know.
I suppose, yeah, they, no, they, they were all in the same orbit, even, even at this point
in time.
But they weren't, they weren't the big ones, were they?
They weren't, they weren't amongst the, they weren't said in the same breath as Anthrax
or Slayer or whatever.
No, these guys, these guys were, um, underground, I would say.
They were, they were not like super underground.
So people had heard of them.
Yeah.
But not until, I mean, the Cleansing, which is this album that we're going to talk about,
is 1994.
It, the singles on this album is what broke the band.
They were all over MTV, Beavis and Butthead, and they become huge.
They were, yeah, you've got it.
We'll be right back.
Nothing brings more content for this world than the memories now found.
Every moment of no scene is known to no reason the trouble unfolds.
For the trials of today have no dread, really don't care how you feel.
The present notion of miraculous change twists into multiple tears.
Tears!
You snap your fingers, you snap your nails
Seconds drip through my hands, lost of moments of bond
All the spaces between bleed, a tribute to a sacrament never exposed
A message to the forces, I have no pity
Don't know how thankful to feel, expectations of my daily bread
Kiss me the hunger to steal
You are the gold knife, you break your back
You snap your fingers, you snap your neck
You want the gold knife, you break your back
You snap your fingers, you snap your neck
You want the gold knife, you break your back
You snap your fingers, you snap your neck
You want the gold knife, you snap your neck
You want the gold knife, you break your back
You snap your fingers, you snap your neck
You want the gold knife, you break your back
You snap your fingers, you snap your neck
You want the gold knife, you break your back
You snap your fingers, you snap your neck
See, this is the thing, because there's a few bands
that we've done this, and that's happened
Yeah
But it's a little bit before my time
Yeah, yeah, of course
So I wasn't quite there yet
So I think this is why I'm not
I probably don't connect with these records
Quite the same way
Well, so they, yeah, so it was everywhere
And it kind of led to, you know, the
Led to Cleansing being, you know, the album
that hooked tons of people
Yeah
But you have to, you have to bear in mind
what was going on at the same time
You know, you talk about them playing with Metallica
Well, they were playing on bills with Metallica
Yeah
But this is kind of like Black Album
Yes, yeah
Period for them, right
And Load and Reload
So, you know, Metallica are going down
this radio-friendly route
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And Prong, I think, still
I think they'd found themselves by 94
I think they'd kind of figured out
what their sound actually was
And I think the albums
It's interesting
You can kind of hear these changes
Yes
Their tone and their songs as they, as they, like, go from album to record to record
kind of thing
By the time they get here
There's this, like, almost, for me, it's like this perfect mixture of different stuff
Yeah, yeah
It's, they've still got that kind of hardcore and thrash elements in it
And the record kind of starts quite thrashy
But then there are bits in there that are, like, just groove metal
There are bits in there that are what would become industrial
Yeah
There are, you know, like, programmed drumbeats in there
And a real drummer
And, do you know what I mean?
And so it's, yeah
And you don't associate that with 994
No, not really
So, so, yeah
Not really
That's interesting
Because when you, when you, when you, when you flicked it through
There was
The only band that I could think of that were doing that sort of stuff
In, in, in terms of the stylistic shifts of Faith No More
Yeah, yeah
They, they
Um, Chilis were dead rocky funky
That was their, that was their thing
But they'd not got the, um
But they didn't have the riffs or the metal
No, they didn't
And to be fair, Faith No More didn't, really
No
They weren't, they weren't particularly heavy
No, they weren't
They, yeah
It's a good point
They weren't
They had big guitars and synths
Yeah
Um, but they didn't have the metal riffs like, like Prong have got
But it, there's, I mean, there's an interesting history
I mean, the, this is on, um, Epic
Yeah, yeah
Who had Pearl Jam
Yeah
And, yeah, a bunch of others
Michael Jackson
Yeah
Right
Um, and Prong
Yeah
And Prong really didn't fit
They were not
That, you know what I mean
The, the, the record labels were signing heavy bands
But I don't think Epic really knew
No
What to do with them
They didn't really know
Like how to, um, to market them
They did put quite a bunch of stuff behind them
There was a lot of push behind singles and things
To try and get them, get them going
And the touring was relentless
Yeah
Of the back of this record
They were, they were all over the place
Um, but it never really broke
No
And it's interesting
You hear, um, you listen to Tommy Victor from Prong talking about this
He's kind of
Is he the singer, the guitarist?
Yeah, he writes, so he writes
So he's kind of the front man
Yeah, he's the guy
Yeah, yeah, yeah
So Tommy Victor is Prong
Yeah, there's no, you know
There's no, that, that, the band just builds around
Yeah
Tommy at each point
Um
Which is interesting
Because there are, there have also been different members over time
And those sort of things I'd imagine
Yeah
But the sound's really consistent
Yeah, and I think that's him
But about, one of the things I think
Um, like this is one of my favourite albums
But I've never really thought about why
It sounds the way it does
Um, but one of the interesting things I think
Is that Troy Gregory was the bassist on
Prove You Wrong in 91
Now he leaves on the 91 tour
Yeah
So they're without a bassist
Um, and
And that was where they, that was where they
Lost the fans, you said
Or the thrash guys kind of started to move away
Yeah, there was definitely like some
Oh, hang on a minute
This isn't quite what I'm expecting
This is a bit funky
And what are you doing
You know, this isn't
It was a little bit more
Um, uh, experimental and electronica on
They're still very heavy
Yeah, yeah
Still kind of the big thick heavy guitars
But it's not
It wasn't, uh, you know
Kill them all
It wasn't like thrash music
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
It wasn't like Death Angel and stuff
So they, they, a lot of fans were like
Oh, hang on a minute
I don't, I'm not sure
I'm not sure I like this anymore
Yeah, yeah
Um, so they were without a bassist
What's with this electronic stuff?
Yeah
Hmm, get rid of it
Um, so they signed Paul Raven
For, for, uh, bass work
Yeah
Now, Paul Raven was Killing Joke
Yeah, okay
Yeah, he was kind of hardcore
Yeah
Punky
Um, and he brought, like, I think he brought some, uh, some quite cool bass chops to this
And it kind of, uh, it gets a little bit more technical, I think, for this album
Yeah
He also brought with him his mate John Bestel
Now he's also, uh, Killing Joke
Um, and, yeah
That's interesting
So it's a prong take on, yeah
Yeah, he was ex-ministry
So were Killing Joke, did they leave Killing Joke to do this?
Yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I think Killing Joke had finished by
Yeah, they've done, okay, yeah, yeah
But, but he was in ministry as well, uh, John
And, um, that gets really interesting
Because he was, like, a keyboard programmer
Yes, yeah
Raven was supposed to be on that Power of the Damager record
That, that, uh, that we did
Like, uh, uh, he was gonna be back
And then we were gonna get Joey Jordison to play drums
And, like, Raven just never showed up
And he was, like, I had already started working on songs
And, uh, you know, I said, come on down with some material
And it was going on and on
I finally go, Raven, I don't know what to do with you
I don't know what he was doing
So I finally said, you know, I gotta, you know
I gotta move on, you know
And he's like, oh, it's okay, well, it's fine
So then, um, uh, I was actually out with Prong
We released, we finally released our Power of the Damager record
And he called me up out of the blue
I was in New York
And doing, like, a press thing
And I'm like, what's going on?
He goes, oh, man, I'm like
I'm gonna go over to Geneva
I'm working with, you know, with Ted Parsons
And the Tropon and Paul guys are gonna go
He's like, I don't really wanna do it
It's like, it was, he was complaining about it
Like, going, like, you know
I think they're dicking me around, like, financially and everything
And I'm like, Raven, don't go over there
I was like, you know, what are you doing?
Just, why are you doing it?
And he's like, I don't know, I'm not going
He was like, I'm gonna go
Alright, man, listen, don't go
And they're like, I'll call you, talk you in a couple of days
And then I found out he went over
And then, like, two days later, I found out he was dead
So, yeah, you mentioned it before we hit record
That Ministry took a lot of influence maybe from the prong sound
I think so
That early 90s sort of thing
I think tons of bands took stuff from
I mean, it's obviously nascent, isn't it?
So there's, like, stuff that's happening
What does that word mean?
I've heard that word before, nascent
It just means it's kind of developing
It's like, you know what I mean?
It's like a little baby
Yeah
It's like a little baby heavy metal genre
Yeah, like our podcast
Perpetually nascent
Perpetually nascent, yeah
But, yeah, you know, so you've got a few
Interesting people coming in
And as much as the songs were written by Tommy
I mean, you know this as well as anyone
Yeah, you put a different player on it
As soon as you go into the studio to record it
You know, somebody's like, oh, okay
Well, that's not how I'm going to play it
Do you know what I mean?
Or their natural style will come through
Yeah
And I think the keyboard and programming
And samples and stuff
That started to kind of come alive
And started to get developed a little bit more as well
Which, yeah, I think is really interesting
I think as well, there are more
There's more melody
There's a lot of hooks through this
And again, I was listening to an interview
With Tommy Victor talking about
What he wanted cleansing to be
And he was like, you know
We were bored of thrash at this point
Yes
We'd done the thrash thing
We didn't want to do that
We didn't want to be the fastest thrash band
We didn't want to
You know, we were like over that
We wanted to do something else
Yeah
We'd experimented and, you know
We'd experimented and, you know, mucked around with the sound a little bit
But by this point, what I wanted was this, like, dance
I wanted, like, heavy metal music you could dance to
I wanted something that you could play in a club
And that would be, you know, that would move people
Yes
That's what I was going for
I wanted this, you know, I didn't want, like, uber, super techno stuff
But I kind of wanted, like, big, thick, pounding dance music
That would get you to, like, nod your head to or dance to
That was what it was about
You know, and then he went off on this kind of rabbit hole of these
You know, I guess, you know, like, nine inch nails
Yeah
And kind of, this kind of powerful, like, trance music almost
Yeah
But with heavy, distorted guitars
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And it's interesting, because as soon as I heard him mention that
You just thought, that's what this album is
Yeah, of course, yeah
That's what it is
It's, there are bits in there that are still quite thrashy, I think
But, like, you know, 75% of it is
Someone else I've just started thinking about with you
Speaking about that is Rob Zombie
Yeah, Rob Zombie, yeah
Because they were from this neck of the woods as well, weren't they?
They were, yeah, they were CBGB's bands
What is that?
Because that comes up, CBGB's, in the blog
And also in the interviews
CBGB
Is it a venue?
Yeah, CBGB's was a venue in New York
Now, I'm going to get it wrong
I think it stands for country
CBGB's is country, bluegrass and blues
Oh, right, okay
Is what it stood for initially
But, that was the, that was the, the original proprietor's aim for it
But it kind of got taken over by the punk rockers
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Through the 80s
And this, like, incredible hardcore scene got built around CBGB's
Yeah
You know, where there was this, like, incredible scene of bands that were, that were there
It's, I mean, it's iconic
It's, you know, if you're, if you're new to it
Then go and go and go into Wikipedia's CBGB's
Yes
Or YouTube, there's tons of documentaries about CBGB's and the scene and all the people that were there
Tommy Victor
Yeah
Was the sound guy
Right, okay
During that scene
So he was the guy, if you turned up there to do your set on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon
Yeah
Tommy was the guy twiddling the knobs
Wow
Which is really, I think it's, it's super cool
Obviously really well connected in that scene
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
And that's where Prong came from
That's crazy, isn't it?
So, yeah, yeah
The music scene and, like, metal and everything, definitely
I mean, how many bands really are from New York that really are around or survive?
Not that many
So, especially from Manhattan
I mean, it was like swans and, you know, white zombie, Prong, maybe, you know
I mean, and Helmet, you know
So, I don't even think Helmet went back, I'm not sure, but, you know
By the time I left working there in 1990, I thought the whole scene was gone
It only lasted from, probably from 82 to, like, 88 was where
And then it got, it just became a tourist trap, the club, really
And I was like, what, there's no reason to really be here
And then Hilly, the owner, saw it that way, too
He was like, you know, he couldn't wait to get the hell out of there
War conquest
War pride division
Another
Rape for a strong man
It scares you
Into submission
Now's the time
To face the hope
More conquest, more found official, another, late for a strongman, it scares you into submission, now's the time to face the whole moon.
It's a fight, never give a damn, all the times.
Shoot them out, try the land, bring them out, take the flight, never give a damn.
More conquest, more wild to fishing, another, late for a strongman, it scares you into submission, now's the time to face the whole moon.
All alone, never give a damn, hold tight, to what you know.
Those might, just a fight, knock down, upon the floor.
More conquest, more found official, another, great for a strongman, it scares you into submission, now's the time to face the whole moon.
Let's do it.
Let's go.
To face the horror
After death
To face the horror
The amount of great bands that were around
And the amount of participation there was
Of music people
And just like kids
And older fans
And there was a lot of energy
And I thought it was amazing
It was a great time
All through the early 80s
And it just didn't center around CBG
It was all of Manhattan really
I mean there were so many clubs
And great bands
And I think of stuff like
The Bush Tetras
And a lot of alternative things
And bands like Live Skull
And there were so many great things
That went on
Glen Branca
It was just an amazing art scene
And it doesn't exist anymore
People were living in lofts
And kids were squatting in buildings
And it was just like this open forum
For ideas
And we didn't have phones
To be attending all the time
And we didn't have internet
And it was just
It was cool
You know a lot of these things
That you grow up with
And that move you into the directions
Like you know I grew up in Queens
Which is like
We talk about cemeteries
The whole place is a cemetery
As like you know getting out of there
Getting out of the old neighborhood
And it's going
You know screw this
I'm moving into Manhattan
And I don't care
You know I was working
I had no money
And I was living in this apartment
On the Lower East Side
And that's what made me an artist
Really you know
Was it on this album
That you discovered wrong
Or were you with them before this
Oh way way way way before this one
Yeah you were with them
Back in the thrash time
Yeah yeah
So I think it was Begged to Differ
For me
Yeah
And again
And that was in the 80s
Yeah when
Yeah 90
90
Yeah
My mate
He played the guitar
And he loved
He loved the riffs
So
It is riffs innit
It's all about the riffs
Yeah
It's
They're pretty simple sounding
You know what I mean
They're kind of like
Chuggy chug chug chug
I love
I always loved that kind of bone dry
Yeah
I don't know
And like the simple
The
The simplicity
Of it
It's kind of like caveman riffs
Yeah
But actually when you try and play them
They're harder than you imagine
Yeah
And the
The song structure's harder than you imagine
It's like
Deceptively simple
Like ACDC I think
Yes
It's deceptively simple
But anyway
I loved that
I absolutely loved
Where they were
With
With Begged to Differ
It was quite a metal the album was
They did an album before that
Called Force Fed
Which was a bit more
Hardcore
That was pretty nasty
I remember
I wasn't a big fan of that at the time
I quite like it now
Yeah
But at the time
It was a little bit too
I don't know
It was like
It was a very raw record
Yeah
Force Fed
Sound
It sounds like it was recorded on a
But you know people say it was recorded on a potato
It's got that
A lot of that early thrash stuff did though didn't it
It had that kind of thing
It did
It was that kind of punk
Super dry
Yeah
But then recorded on a budget
Yeah
So it was
Yeah it just kind of
There's nowhere to hide
No
Yeah
Interesting
Talking of production actually
It was Mark Dodson did most of their stuff
Now we talked about Mark Dodson before
Yeah they've said that name to Bill
So Dodson did all the suicidal tendencies
In fact I was looking at some of his stuff
So Dodson did Judas Priest, Joan Jett, Loverboy, Metal Church, Death Wish, Suicidal Tendencies, Anthrax, Accept, Prong, so he did Beg to Differ
In fact he did all of the Prong Records right up to this one
Right, right
And the band wanted Terry Date
Yeah
Now your man Terry
Historically amazing, gets amazing drums
Yeah your man Terry Date has got, I mean he's done big stuff
Yeah
He's done some epic stuff
Now he did, at the time I think he'd done, so he'd done Pantera and Vulgal Display of Power and Soundgarden Records
And that's who the band wanted
Epic, the label were just like, no
It's not going to work, it's not, we need somebody different
We need a, like, you know, and they'd got their own list of producers that they wanted to use
So they didn't want Mark Dodson or Terry Date
No
They wanted somebody else
No
Yeah
And it was a fairly significant battle apparently
For them to get their way
But I think, yeah, it's interesting
Because I don't, the album, like you mentioned, the drum sound on the record is really, is really, it's quite a unique drum sound
Yeah
There's a combination across most of Prong's album
I don't know what they do on every album, there's a combination on most albums
Of programmed and real drum kit sounds
Yeah
And I always liked that, that you can't, sometimes it's not easy to figure out what's
Yeah
Do you know what I mean, what's programmed and what isn't
But the, the production sound of the drums sounds great
Yeah
It sounds like a, it's got this really, I think it's got a great, great drum sound
And I love what they did with the guitars as well
The guitars seem to get weightier
Yeah
But like, but they're still bone dry
They're still, they've still got this kind of, I don't know how to describe it there
But they, it's, it's like a, yeah, it's not full of reverb
No
It doesn't sound like you've got like 80 different layers of guitars
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, it's very direct
Yeah
But it's quite big sound and it's quite chunky
Yeah, it is, it is, direct is a good word for it, it feels
It's present, it's there, it's, yeah
It's driven in this kind of way where, I think, it's funny because if you often, I watched an interview with Tommy Victor during the week
Yeah
It might have been last week, but I, he was playing some of his favourite riffs
Yeah, you sent me that video
It was really interesting because there was reverb on it and you couldn't hear it in the same way, do you know what I mean?
That's so interesting
He had set up reverb on there and it was
I don't know what it is, sorry, slight, slight tangent
Yeah
I don't know what it is with when people like do guitar demos or they do like there's a new product thing or like it's a guitar thing or an amp thing or something like that
They put delay and reverb on stuff
Yeah, yeah, that's what they'd done to him
And it's like, why are you doing that for?
So he was playing, so Tommy was playing the riffs and he was like, you know, he was playing some of the like super cool riffs from this album and from the Prove You Wrong and stuff
And you couldn't hear it, I mean, you know, as a fan, you know what he's playing
Yeah, yeah, yeah
But it wasn't very clear and I think it was because of the reverb on there
Yeah
I don't know, it's interesting because you got, like at that time, I guess most rock bands were winding their compressors up and there was like a wetter sound coming from the Metallica and we're doing this, you know, hard rocky
Yeah, yeah, of course
I mean, Metallica were like a hard rock by the mid-90s, they were radio-friendly hard rock band
Yeah, all the tempos had dropped
Yeah, it was slower, it was melodic
But these guys were all out on the road together, weren't they?
Yeah
So I wonder how much of that rubbed off
I don't know
Like they all slowed each other down
Yeah, there was definitely a slowing down, like everybody seemed to slow down, didn't they?
Yeah, yeah
Through the mid-90s
Maybe it's because they had a bit more budget
I don't know
So they had a bit more time in the series so they weren't rushing
I think that's where Thrash came from
You've got to get the whole album recorded in like an afternoon
I reckon that's it
Just played it
There's my hot take
Just played it really fast
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Again, for a New York band, a very proud New York band
You ever hear Terry Victor speak?
Yes, yeah
He's really proud of where he came from and New York and the scene that he came from
Was recorded in Seattle, Bad Animals Studio
Oh, that is interesting
Owned by the Wilson sisters
Who were the Wilson sisters?
Off of Hart
Oh
Who I quite like
And I think we should cover some of theirs
I quite liked Hart
Yes
They were good
They did some cool tunes
Yeah
What was their big one?
Oh
Shall I tell you?
They're big singles
All I can think about is
I wanna know what love is
That's not even the same band
That's not Hart
I will tell you
I'm doing it now
Yeah
That's the station
Hart
Hartist
Hart the artist
Alone
Oh, of course
Yeah, yeah, yeah
That was a good song
All I wanna do is make love to you
Barracuda
Barracuda is the one
Barracuda, I was gonna say
Did they do Barracuda?
Yeah, yeah, yeah
That's the one I remember
Crazy on you, these dreams
Very, very, very cool band
So they own the studio that this was recorded in?
Yes
Yeah
Well, they were like a generation before, weren't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
I quite like that
I don't think we've covered much of that kind of 70s stuff
No
I'd love to do some more of that
Yeah, yeah
Yeah, we haven't done like Motorhead, have we, or anything like that?
Oh, God, yeah
I know that was a bit later, but we haven't gone there
Do you know, I was talking about Motorhead
I don't think, they're a band that were just accepted by everybody
But genre wise, never really fitted anywhere, did they?
No, no
No, it wasn't quite punk
It wasn't quite metal, wasn't quite punk
It was this like
Yeah
In between
And Lemmy just used to call it fast rock and roll, didn't he?
Yes, yeah
Or speed rock and roll or something like that
Yeah
But yeah
Yeah, I don't know
I like, I could like, Prong didn't fit
They were not hardcore, not punk, not metal
No, yeah
Somewhere in the middle
There's something about bands like that
Yeah
There's another band in this period of time for me that was epic
And that was Mordred
Yes
And if anyone's heard of Mordred before
Then write in and tell me
Because then there's two of us
But they're a band that I absolutely adore
No one's ever heard of Mordred
No
But it was again, same kind of time
Yeah
Mordred were around
They were very funky
Yeah
Funk and metal and stuff
And it was like a bit niche
It was like
I think if Mordred and Prong actually
Like if Cleansing had been released in '98, '99
Yeah
I think it would have been like massive
Prong would have launched into the stratosphere
Really, yeah
And similarly with Mordred I think
Yeah
When we were looking to do this album
I asked the chat GPT
Yeah
Because I like having conversations with it
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It's like having an obedient slave, isn't it?
Like you'll say
You say something like
You know, what album should we do next to blah, blah, blah
And it will say something
And then I'll go like
Well, that seems a stupid idea
And it goes
Yes, you're right
And I like that
I like it
I like it telling me that I'm right all the time
Because I am
Oh yes, it was recorded
Yeah, so it was recorded in Seattle
Yeah
Album
Recorded in Seattle
Bad Animal Studio
Famously owned by the Wilson Sisters of Heart
Sisters of Heart
But then it was also recorded for production and additional bits and bobs at the magic shop
And the final mixes were done at Electric Lady
Oh, that's interesting
Now that is a famous New York studio
It is, that was New York's
It's Jimi Hendrix's studio
Yeah
But she famously only recorded him once
Yeah, yeah
But it is legendary, isn't it?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah
I remember I was recording with someone in Rockfield
And they were just going to have a
Go off to do like a bit of a residency
Oh
Electric Lady for
Like that was their next place of settling for a little while
And they did quite a few projects there
I think that's pretty cool
Vibe
Pure vibe, apparently
Yeah
It's that kind of place, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It's that kind of place
But Tommy talks about that in loads of interviews
In like eight out of ten interviews
Tommy mentions that it was done at Electric Lady Studios
He loves that
Yeah
I think he's a bit nerdy, Tommy
When you hear Tommy talking
Yeah
He's quite nerdy about
Well, he's talking
There's a bit of a play in a second
Where he's talking about New Order
Yeah
And how much he loves New Order
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Again
I didn't expect to hear that, you know
But apparently that's well documented
But I didn't expect to hear that
Yeah, it did shock people
I just relate to that
To the isolation and darkness of Ian Curtis
And I think the music is great too
I mean, it's just fueled with so much passion
And the eeriness of that music has never been
You know, it's been tried to be copied by Interpol
And then the whole goth movement sort of came from Joy Division
But lyrically and I mean, I just love every Joy Division song and release, you know, it's amazing
I remember interviewing Charlie Bernante from Anthrax
And he was waxing lyrical about the Beatles
Yeah
And that was shocking people
Yeah, yeah
I remember submitting the article to my editor
And she was, she's not a metal fan at all
But she was just like, this is like, unbelievable
This is like, it doesn't make any sense
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
But yeah, I like that, I think
Music's music, innit?
Yeah, yeah
Should we talk about the album cover a little bit?
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah
It's dead bizarre, it's got a fork stuck through an eyeball
Yeah, as all good album covers should have really
I like this, there's a handful of album covers around this period of time that I like
Yeah
And this is one of them, it's kind of quite unique
I couldn't find anything about it
It was done, the photography was done by Ken Schlez
Yeah
And the art direction was from Carol Shen
And the ideas behind it were from the band
Yeah
I have no idea what it means
What it means, yeah, yeah, yeah
Why it's there
But it was, a lot of those, we've said this before, haven't we?
But at the time, a lot of albums, they weren't really conceptualised or connected
They were just nice pictures
It's like, and that's another trend that we'll have to get onto at some point
Is the, you know, there's that documentary, Squaring the Circle
Yeah
And it's about the album art of the 60s and 70s bands in London
Yeah, yeah
The kind of Pink Floyd, and I'm trying to think of who, there was tons of bands that used them
And Hypnosis was the...
That was the studio, wasn't it?
Art director, the art company that did it
And they, the thing that I kind of hadn't realised
Is that they would just go off and do stuff on spec
Yeah
So they would be like, they had these projects running constantly
And then an artist would come in and say, we need an album cover
Yeah
And they would say, well, this is what we've got
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And then you would come and select
It was like picking a pair of socks
Yeah
They'd be like, I like that one, please, thank you
And then that would be the album cover
And, you know, then that would, you know, go on to be on the album cover
And then, of course, the fans would try and connect the artwork
Yeah
To the songs
Yeah, okay
And when there was no connection, a very little connection
Yes
And sometimes there was, like, stories made up about it and things like that
But I just, I don't know, I really liked that
It was a real golden era
There's talk of some of those album art
The album art where they've been paid a million pounds for that, for that photograph
That's crazy, isn't it?
That's absolutely crazy
You know, and they were doing, at one stage they were doing these massive shoots
Like the, you know, the Led Zeppelin
Yeah
I'm going to get the album wrong
House of the Holy
Yeah, the one where it's got like the golden, golden, I'll say golden girls, golden mermaids
Yeah
Yeah, from the House of the Holy
The devil, the causeway thing
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
And in the documentary, there's talk of them, that was done completely on spec
Really?
There was no, like there was no plan
Well, there was an art vision, but it wasn't for an album, no one asked them to go and do that
Right
And I don't know, I do love album artwork
I think, especially where there's, I like it when there's a story
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
I like it when there's some kind of connection to it
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
I like it when there's some kind of connection to it
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
We'll be right back.
Pick up, pick up the broken pieces.
Tell you something, Cleveland.
Tell you something, real.
But you tell me another day.
You'll never do nothing real.
We gotta pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces.
Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces.
Pick up the broken pieces.
Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces.
In Peace!
Break up! Your kind of keeps on cutting
Break up! Division you create
Break up! Now it's all exploding
Break up! The point of freedom to break
Break up! Your kind of keeps on cutting
Break up! Division you create
Break up! Now it's all exploding
You're going slow to bleed
But nothing else to break
Pick up, pick up, pick up the bulky piece
No helping, complaining
All this laying rule
It's a time for maintain
Gathering up the wounds
You gotta pick up, pick up
Pick up the broken pieces
Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken piece
Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken pieces
Pick up, pick up, pick up the broken piece
Pick up, pick up the broken piece
Pick up the broken piece
No, I was like, I had a really nice Les Paul special
And it was like an SG, like a reissue
And yeah, it got ripped off out of our storage space
And I was like, there's no reason to have these nice expensive guitars anymore
If I have to worry about them
You know, and actually the guitars that I have right now
With Schechter's are like my own signature model
Is a great, they're pretty kick ass
So, you know, you'll see them on, you know, what I've been playing
I mean, I love them
I had a Schechter
You had a what?
A Schechter?
I've got a Schechter at home
You've got one as well, haven't you?
I hope it's dead heavy
They're very well built
It's dead heavy
You could murder 20 people with one of those
Not even, it wouldn't even knock it out of tune
Yeah
Because, yeah, I remember getting it
I swapped it
Because I do a thing where I buy a guitar
And I get bored of it
And I swap it
Yeah
And then I keep swapping them
And then I never settle on anything
And then I go back to my old guitar
So how do you do with tattoos?
Because you're a tattoo person
How do you do tattoos when you do
Because I'm like that
I'm like, oh, I've changed my mind
Changed my mind
Too late now, innit, with a tattoo
Do you almost like forget you've got it?
Yeah, I do
Yeah, yeah
So, like, it's not a decision you have to make anymore
No, no, exactly
That's exactly it
Yeah, then people go, oh, I like your tattoo
And do you know what?
Do you know what?
Put me off tattoos even more
That obviously I'm so in
No, I'm not indecisive
That's the wrong
I'm very decisive
But I change my mind regularly
Yeah
But do you know what put me off?
You're frequently decisive
I'm frequently decisive, yeah
But there's that
It's something we were taught at work
Strong opinions weekly held
Yeah
And apparently
This is really difficult to do
But I
It's just
This is my personality
It's just
I make a decision
That's what I'm going to do
Lock on
Yeah, and I've done
And that's it
But then
I'll find out something else
Or I'll learn something else
And then I change my mind again
Yeah, yeah, yeah
So that's what I do
But I watched a documentary
Yeah
Oh, Kurzgestad was it?
I love that by the way
If you're not used to
If you're not
If you're
Yeah, if you're not come across that
I can't spell it
Kurz
Kurzgestad
Try
I'm sure if you type it in
It'll come up
It gives me the K
Yeah
And it said how tattoo removal worked
Yeah
And I watched a 45
I've got no tattoos
And I watched a 45 minute documentary
On how tattoo removal works
There we go
How exciting is that?
What you should do now
Is get a tattoo
Just to see how it works
Apparently it's incredibly painful
Is it?
And
Get a tattoo's quite painful
Do you know how tattoos work?
Like
The first
I've got to get this out of my brain now
The first 10 minutes of it
Was just talking about how tattoos work
Yeah
And you have the
The ink goes into the skin
Yeah
And normally
Your immune system
Yeah
Would remove that for you
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It would say
Oh, that's clearly not part of Chris Baldwin
Yeah
And it would go and remove it
Yeah
For you
And get rid of it
Yeah
But
What happens is
The ink particles
Yeah
Are slightly too big
Yeah
For your immune cells
To carry away
Oh, wow
So what your body does instead
Yeah
Is build
Builds a scar
Like a moat around it
Yeah
To protect it
Yeah
To kind of go and say
Well
Leave that alone
Because it's
Yeah
Yeah, it's clearly an invader to our body
Yeah
Well, what we're going to do
Just ignore it
Because we can't
We can't destroy it
Yeah, we're going to build a motor
It's like putting all this stuff in your spare room
Yeah
So we're going to do that
Yeah, yeah, yeah
So that's how tattoos work
Yeah
And the way tattoo removal works
Is it
They blast you with a freaking laser
Yeah
And that smashes the ink particles up
So it breaks it up
So your immune system
And then your immune system
Goes, oh, I'll deal with that
And it kind of wiggles in
And then removes it
And then
So you go in
I think it sings while it's doing it
Oh, God, yeah, definitely
Definitely got to sing
And it comes in
I bet it listens to suicidal tendencies
I bet it
It comes in and picks up the pieces
I want to know what love is
It comes in
Who did that song?
I don't know
I've no idea what you're talking about
Foreigner
I don't know
Foreigner or Journey
I'm going to search it up
I
Want
To
I want to know what love is
Is the third option
What is it?
Freena
Foreigner
I was right
It's off
Oh, it's off of
Agent Provocateur
I know that album
Tooth and Nail
That was just
Yeah, yeah, yeah
That's a good album actually
That's what your immune system sings
1984
It spins up
1984
Foreigner record
Yeah
And then just deals
With the lasers
The bit that I thought was amazing
So they laser blast you
Yeah
And then
Because it's really hot
And essentially it explodes
Yeah
Under the skin
Which is why it's extremely
So having the tattoo done
Apparently is less painful
Than having it removed
Yeah, it's not very nice
You know where her shin
Had a tattoo on my shin
Did you?
That's not
That's painful
Everything with the shin
I hit my shin on the dishwasher door
This morning
Yeah
That really hurt
Yeah
I had a thing about it
I was going to get more tattoos
Yeah
Because I got them quite a while ago now
A few years ago
Yeah
And then I got the bug
Yeah
And then I suddenly stopped
And then I haven't had one since
But
Got the bug
The bug
Oh, the bug
Yeah
So I was
It's due
There's
There's another
There's another chapter
Of my midlife crisis
That's just about due
I can sort of feel it
Just
Yeah
You know
Just creeping in
So it might be
It might be tattooing my face
Or something
Is midlife
Is midlife a journey
It's a journey
It's not a destination
It's a journey
Yeah, exactly
Yeah, yeah
Do you ever get over
A midlife crisis
Do you think?
I don't
I'm constantly on one
How do you know it began?
Convertible
Oh, God
Your Audi convertible
Beautiful car
I'd have another now
I'd have one
I'd have another one
Why don't you
I keep
For the listeners
I keep sending Chris
Like really stupid car
Do you know what
I nearly sent you this morning?
What was that?
Was it a Renault Clio V6?
How cool were they?
They've got the three litre V6
The backs
It's no back seats
No, no
It's in like the engines
Right behind your elbow
Yeah
They made hardly any of them
Yeah
Toyota did one of them
As well in the Yaris
Same sort of thing
Honestly
I remember driving
One of those Clio V6s
Around Donington
Right
And it was
It was a horror show
It was so hard to drive
You imagine it's going to be epic
Don't you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And it was
It sounded incredible
But it was fighting it
Oh my God
I was
The time I was
I was doing tuition
I was teaching people
How to
So I would be there
You know
I'd go and do two or three laps
With them just to make sure
They could get around
Without killing themselves
Yeah
When they came through track days
And that was somebody's car
And they were like
Can you
Well we went out
I did like a passenger laps
With them for a little bit
And gave them some tuition
Of just, you know
I thought it was there
Like
I thought they were being
Heavy handed
With the controls
Because the car was like
Constantly trying to swap
Ends on it
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And so I was like
And then
Anyway
He came to me
Later
And said
Do you want to have a go
In it?
I was going
Yeah
And I thought
Yeah, okay
Epic
We went out
And then
As we
Literally
First
First call
And I'm like
I don't think it was you
Maybe it wasn't you
But yeah
Awesome cars
And if you
If you find stupid cars
That are going to tempt
Chris's midlife crisis
Send them in
So
I just keep sending you
All kinds of stupid stuff
Yeah, yeah
I'd definitely have an Impreza
But I want one of them
Big old blue ones
You know
The ones like
The old rally sounds
Yeah, yeah, yeah
The Colin McRae
Because the new ones
Are a bit
They look a bit normal
Don't they
The one that you sent me
It's the sound
You've got
Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop
You need that
Yeah
You need that going on
But you've got to have
All that, haven't you?
Yeah, of course
Yeah, yeah
Very important, actually
I like
My car's got a CD player in it
Yeah
And I like that
Yeah
I like that
And I'm
Yeah
It's got
It lets you copy
You can put your music in
And I'd forgotten
They let you do this
But you can say
Is it
I can't remember
What they call it
Save, I think it's called
But it literally
Rips the CD
You're joking
No, to the head unit
How cool is that?
Really?
Yeah
So it'll save it in there
So you load it in
And then you go
Save that
Save that CD, please
Yeah
Wow
That's really cool
Yeah
My car's
My car was
It was 2012
So it's just on
The nanny verge
I think
It's just on that verge
Of everything going
A little bit too
Nanny state
Yeah
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It's got start-stop
Yeah
Which I've coded off
But that's all it's got
It doesn't do anything else
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Whereas like
All of the cars
I've had since then
Yeah
They're just doing it for you
More nanny stuff
Like
I had a BMW
In 2016
I think it was
Yeah
You get in it
And it would say
It's cold
I don't know it's cold
Don't tell me it's
I mean
Stupid things
Stupid is that?
Yeah
And then
I don't know
There's constant nagging
Stuff
Yeah, yeah
Oh, in my car
At the minute
It's if you leave
The seatbelt off
Yeah
And it's a annoying frequency
Like they've nailed it
They've nailed it
It's just
Yeah, it's a bit too loud
And it's a bit too
The wrong frequency
So you just want to get out
And not get back in again
And that's why
I've got rid of my Apple Watch
As well
Yeah, yeah
Because if I put my
If I put prong on
In my car
Yeah
And it says
Noisy environment
Go away
I know it's noisy
I made it noisy
Yeah
I don't need you
To tell me it's noisy
And tell me that
You know
Oh, you're hearing
Oh, you'll regret that
Just do one
So we tonight
Because we
We started recording
Quite late
Mainly because I was
Faffing
You do a lot of faffing
Yeah
You've got
You've
Lately
You've gone
You're faffaholic
Yeah, yeah
I've gone full faff
But also
You showed me
Some new
We've been on
Websites
The watch dives
We actually probably
Lost half an hour
To that, didn't we?
We did
Yeah, we did
And that's from
My friend Adrian
Who listens to the show
As well
Yeah
So Adrian showed me
We both love watches
And have spent fortune
On watches over the years
And then he showed me
This Chinese site
Called Watch Dives
Which are kind of
Like a homages
And I was like
Oh, I'm not having
One of them
I'm not having one of them
And then he watched
The YouTube videos
Yeah, I watched
And then eventually
I said, do you know what
I fancy
And then I've got one
Yeah
And then
Now I keep looking for more
So then I've infected you
With that now
Yeah, yeah
And AliExpress
Yeah, yeah
By USB-C cables
Yeah, so I spent
While we were
We were just preparing
For the show
I spent money on
I bought 200 magnets
I just love that
You bought loads of magnets
I buy car cleaning stuff
I buy my cloth
To clean my car
But do you know
What I bought
While you were faffing
I bought Newton's cradle
Five USB-C cables
Yeah, yeah, yeah
What else did I buy
And a spinning magnet
I'm going to say
For the kids
Because both of my boys
Love that kind of stuff
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I think what we should do
Each one
Each episode now
Is
Well, because
There's
There's inevitably
Faffing
That's a given
There's always faffing
Every week
Yeah
So I think that
What we should do
Is like
Join the show
And while there's faffing
Just order something
And then at the end of the show
Reveal what we've ordered
But it's like
But your thing is
You do it
You would like
I'll go on
What did I order this time
As well
So I ordered
I did the Newton's cradles
They were £3 each
Yeah
And then I ordered
My USB-C cables
They were £1.50 each
And then
But I've also
I need
Needed this
Need
Because I love cleaning my car
Yeah
But it weren't
Like in the winter
They don't dry very well
Yeah
And so I dry with my towel
Yeah
But
Car-drying towel
That's the best thing ever
I've got a car-dried towel
But then
I wanted to blow a fan thing
Yeah
And
I wanted it
Really powerful
Yeah
So like I can blow
Like
You know
Finger dirt and stuff
Out of my keyboards
Yeah
As well as
The car and stuff
Right
Yeah
So it'd be great
I go onto AliExpress
And start searching for
You know
Searchy
Blowy fans
Kind of things
And there are loads of them
And they're really cool
But they call them
Violent fans
And I just think
That's
Why do they not
Why do we not call them
Violent fans
No we should have better
Descriptions shouldn't we
Yeah
That's the best description ever
Yeah yeah
And you know someone's just
Typed it into like
Google Translate or something
But I love that
Yeah yeah yeah
I wonder what they typed in
To get Violent Fan in Chinese
Yeah yeah
Yeah
I do like that
Yeah
And what do we
I've forgotten what we're doing
So we're doing a podcast
About classic albums
Yeah
And
I'm Chris
You're Neil
Sorry I'm Neil
You're Chris
Yeah
This album
Yeah
Is
I think I'm going to mark
As critically acclaimed
But commercially underappreciated
Okay
I think this
I think this album
Is phenomenal
As you go through
If you've not
If you like industrial stuff
In ministry
And you've not come across
Pong
Go right back to the beginning
Go right back to
Beta Differ
And then work your way through
Even up to the latest albums
Because they're still doing stuff now
Yeah
They're still recording
And they're still
And it's still
The sounds are the same
It's still consistent
It's still
Production's bigger
And thicker
And stuff
But they're still
It's still riffy riff riff
Yeah
But they're good
They're just
Like if you liked
If you liked
The early stuff
And you were hooked up on Prong
And you've got a lot
Lost touch with them a little bit
Their new albums
Will
You'll reconnect
You'll connect with them
Really
Yeah yeah yeah
Really really cool band
They went out on tour
For this album
They did lots of touring
They were out with
Sepultura and Pantera
So that would have been
Chaos AD tour
Yeah
And far beyond driven tour
Famously
The Pantera boys
Would wear prong t-shirts
Oh
Not all of them
Like
Not like a
Like a
Dress outfit
But they
Yeah
But they wore
Oh that's interesting
There were photographs of
Of Pantera
With prong t-shirts
On which I thought
Was really interesting
And back in the day
Like prong were just cool
Yeah
They were
They were a cool band
They were one
They were one of the few bands
That got featured by
Beavis and Butthead
And in
In a non-negative way
Yes
So when prong came on
Beavis and Butthead
Were like
Cool
Both likes it
Yeah
They both
Both loved it
And
Where did the band name
Come from
Do you know
No
I don't
I feel like I should know
That but I do not
I think
Chachapiti
Will be able to help us
With that
Have you seen that
Boris Johnson
Do you use AI
Chachapiti
He's like a caricature
Of like
Himself
Now isn't he
Do you know what I mean
He's like
He's like a
Yeah
Super weird
Talking of
The label
It's interesting
Because they were on
A major label
They were on Epic
And Tommy Victor
Often
Like complained
That he felt
That they were on
The wrong label
They were on this
Big label
And had all this
Money
And stuff
It was the wrong
Thing
They
The label
Didn't understand
Them
Didn't really
Get it
No
It was because
They were doing
Michael Jackson
Who you said
Wasn't it
Michael Jackson
And Pearl Jam
Yeah
But again
It's interesting
Because
The reason
So they did
Cleansing
And then
After cleansing
Because
Cleansing had got
Snap your fingers
Snap your neck
Which was
Which was massive
And then after that
They did
Rude Awakening
Yeah
Now
Rude Awakening
Didn't have any
Singles on it
Right
And
Bizarrely
It's a proper
Dip in form
Yeah
So if you
Like for me
You've got those
First three records
Right
So you've got
Like
Beg to differ
Prove you wrong
Cleansing
Yeah
All really really
Strong records
But you might not
Like the style of them
But actually
Not the production
Or whatever
Yeah
They're super cool
They're really really
Cool records
Then
You got
Rude Awakening
And Scorpio Rising
Both of which
I didn't like
A great deal
Interesting
But
Yeah
And then
I don't know
Then you got
Like for me
They kind of
Came back
With
Ruining Lives
And then they did
Songs from the Black Hole
And then
So when was that
What year was that
2015
So 2014
I think
They came back
With Ruining Lives
I think that
A lot of people
In the
Who were big
Let's say
Bands that were
Big in the 90s
Yeah
When it got to
The end of the 90s
And through the 2000s
I think a lot of them
Just lost that
Yeah
How do we cope
With this
You know
Like this digital stuff
This world changes
So they went on
Hiatus
Really
Because they did
Scorpio Rising
2003
Then they came back
With Carved Into Stone
In 2012
Yeah
Which is alright
I mean
So those
Ruining Lives
Songs from the Black Hole
They were alright
For me
They came back
With a bang
With no absolutes
And then Zero Days
Was really good
In 2017
And then State of Emergency
They did in 2023
It was a great album
Yeah
I remember you showing me that
It was a banger of a record
And they're kind of bad
I mean for me
Like their best records
Are like probably
State of Emergency
From 2023
And Cleansing
In 94
I'd have a hard
Time to choose
Between those two
Yeah
See that's interesting
Is it
Because you'd imagine
That after that amount of time
And putting out a new record
It'd almost sound like a tribute
Yeah
To themselves
But it still stands up
It is really good
Those last three
That they've done
State of Emergency
Zero Days
And No Absolutes
Really
Yeah
Really got it
Yeah
Absolute bangers
Really really good
Singles
From Cleansing
They did
Snap Your Finger
Snap Your Neck
Which was the
I mean it's just huge
Yeah
That was the one
It was played everywhere
It was kind of in the
You know you went into the pub
It would get played
It was everywhere
They did
Whose Fist Is This Anyway
Which curiously
They had an EP
Called Whose Fist
Is This Anyway
But there wasn't
A song called
Whose Fist Is This Anyway
Was that earlier than this
Yeah
It was a couple of years before
Which again
Is kind of a little bit thrashier
And then Broken Peace
Which
I quite liked this album
This track
It was slightly moodier
And a little bit slower
Yeah
Which
Yeah
Again pretty cool
They did
Although like
Tommy
Was kind of quite hard
On Epic
For
Not supporting them
Necessarily
They did music videos
And all kinds of stuff
For these
Which was
You know expensive
And
Yeah
And you know
Took stuff doing
And I have to be honest
As much as I love Tommy
I love the
The band
I think the reason
They didn't get the
Like if you look at the timing here
96
For Rude Awakening
Yeah
If they'd have put out another banger
Like Cleansing
Yeah
In 96
Yeah
Because
It was interesting
Because Rude Awakening
Actually charted higher than Cleansing
Wow
Right
But then just died a death
Yeah
Because there's momentum behind the band
People just bought it
Because they thought it was going to be
Cleansing
Yeah
Version 2
Yeah
And it wasn't
It wasn't
Right
Yeah
If they'd have put out a super strong record
In 96
I think
They'd have been
Yeah
Exactly
But it's again
Listening to Tommy
Talk about that time
He was like
We were trying to replicate
The writing
For Cleansing
And it just didn't work
It wasn't coming
We weren't able to do
Do you know what I mean
It was
And it felt like a bit of a letdown
And we felt
It felt kind of
Yeah
You know
We knew it wasn't
Yeah
But it felt very forced
It felt
We were under massive pressure
Epic were massively putting us under pressure
Yeah
To
To perform
And it wasn't
Just didn't work
It wasn't conducive
Yeah
So it didn't work
And then they got dropped
So Epic dropped them after
Rude Awakening
They just got dropped
Completely
Which is
Interesting
Yeah
Which would explain the hiatus
Yeah
I think it knocked them pretty hard
At that point
And in fact
Tommy talks about this a lot
Where
The
Second guessing himself
Like thinking he's not good enough
And I think a lot of it
Comes from that time
You know
Being under that massive pressure
Are having
The success
With this album
Yeah
And then it just
Kind of falling out
From under their feet
Yeah
When they did
Rude Awakening
I'm just at the point
In the blog
Where I did five things
That you might not know
We've covered all of them
Like we always do
The bit we haven't talked about
Is that most of the songs
Were written
In Tommy Victor's toilet
So he had this apartment
In Brooklyn
Yeah
And he used to work
On an acoustic guitar
Quietly
And he used to go
And do it in his bathroom
Yeah
So not to annoy his neighbours
Yeah yeah
Nice guy
Really nice guy
Late night
So you guys are having a poo
While I write the songs
I don't know
Well I just think
It doesn't say that
Sometimes
If I'm having a poo
Yeah
You write a song
I haven't done that yet
But I have a good thought
Do you know what I mean
Like you know
You're having a minute
And you're having a poo
And you think
And you go
Oh that's a good idea
And then
And then you kind of run with it
Yeah
And I just wonder if
More people should try having
I do in the shower
I think people should try
And write songs
Whilst having a poo
Just because I think
The only problem is though
He's not very healthy
Is it to stay
Sat down
Like
In poo pose
Is he not
For too long
I didn't know that
Yeah it's a problem I think
What kind of problem
Will that cause
I think it's
Circulation with the legs
Or do you like over poo
But also
Yeah yeah
But also
Because you're kind of like
You're a bit open aren't you
With the back
And you know
Something might get in
Yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Oh god
Yeah
No well you're just a bit loose
Aren't you
And all that sort of thing
Oh my god
I don't
You might be
Overly forcing it
Oh
Yeah
That could cause problems
Yeah I suppose
Yeah
I like to sit down
For a wee now
Do you
I do yeah
I like doing that
I like to sit down
For a wee
It's like a break
Isn't it
Yeah I'm not there yet
I like that
It's quite nice
You just get to sit down
I like my friend
Or he said
He can't go to the toilet
Without taking his phone
Yeah
I like to do it without
I like to just
You know
Go and just sit
And contemplate
Do my wee
Yeah
I'm done
Yeah
I was finding it weird
I was finding it quite strange
To speaking about
About males
Yeah
Where
Where they full on
Drop trow
You know what I mean
Not just doing
Not just doing the flies
Yeah
And doing the business with that
Yeah
But actually full drop trow
Oh
Around the ankles
Yeah yeah yeah
In a public toilet
Yeah
Kind of
Oh god that's weird
Do you know my youngest
Won't use a stand up urinal
Really
No
Which is horrific
Because he's quite
He's a bit hygienic
Yeah
And so
If ever you go anywhere
That's like a little bit dirty
He's a little bit
Yeah gets a bit
He struggles with it
Yeah
But he's quite happy
To go into a trap
In like a
You know in like
A motorway service station
Yeah yeah yeah
You know
And you think
Oh the things that have happened
In those traps
You don't
Yeah
Do you know what I mean
And you can kind of smell it
The things are backing up
And there's normally a man
With a mop isn't there
Yeah yeah yeah
And you're like oh god
This is not going to be very good
Yeah yeah yeah
But he'd rather does that
Than do a full on
A stand up
That's really interesting
Urinal
Yeah
That's weird
Yeah
I'm sure he'll get out of that
Yeah
So anyway
Back to
So Tommy wrote
In the toilet
Yeah
I don't know whether
He was pooing or not
No I don't
We took quite a detour
Then didn't we
We did
I want to talk a little bit
About the impact
Of this album
Because there's a bunch
Of bands I think
Were kind of nurtured
By this
But there's one band
That I think
I'd like to cover next
Okay
So
I think they influenced
A huge number of bands
But I think
Korn and Static X
Yeah
Like Ministry
Were around the same time
I do think there's a little bit
Of crossover
Yeah yeah
I think they're kind of
Looking over here
But they were sort of
Running in parallel
Yeah a little bit
Copying each other's homework
But
Yeah
Yeah I mean
Yeah
Prong were heavier
Yeah
Ministry were a little bit
Softer and a bit more
Commercial
Yeah
And I would say
A little bit
They ended up being more
Their output was more stable
Do you know what I mean
Yeah yeah yeah
They were able to get
You know
When it counted
They were banging
The good albums out
Because honestly
I think if that
Rude Awakening record
Had been a little bit
More commercial
Yeah they'd have smashed it
Yeah I think
I think they'd have
They'd have absolutely
Slammed it
But yeah
But didn't
Again
We're going through
Some of the factors
The cleansing
Didn't chart
Particularly well
No
I think
107
I think it charted
Yeah yeah
But critically acclaimed
That's so interesting
The critics liked it
But the fans
Didn't kind of
Pick up on it
Yeah
I mean
Absolutely bonkers
Really
And that's about it
Really
I'm just gonna
Let me look
At my facts
Let me look
I've got a table
Of facts
Let me look
At the table
Of facts
Which I'll do
Super quickly
So
Released January
25th
1994
Recorded in
1993
In Seattle
And then was
Mixed in
In New York
Label was
Epic record
Produced by
Terry Date
Length
58 minutes
Well that's long
For you
Isn't it
But I think
It's 12 tracks
Is it 12 tracks
I think it's 12 tracks
Which is acceptable
Yeah yeah
That's
Approximately right
Tommy Victor
On vocals and guitars
It's not about
The length of the album
It's about the song
Yeah
Length ratio
I don't like long songs
So I get confused
Where I'm at
I'm like
Is this the next song yet
Or it's still in the same song
Paul Raven on bass
Ted Parsons on drums
And John Bechdel
On keyboards
And programming
Three singles
We talked about
Snap your fingers
Snap your neck
Whose fist is this anyway
Unbroken piece
Again
All three of them
Are pretty
Pretty good singles
Pretty banging
Snap your fingers
Snap your neck
It was the one
That was massive
126 on the
Billboard 200
Snap your fingers
Snap your neck
Got to 80
On the UK singles chart
Which was the highest
It had been
Yeah highest
It had been done
It was reissued
In 2008
If you wanted
To go and get
A reissue
And they've also
Just redone the vinyl
So if you go to
I think it was on
Ear rake
Okay
Yeah yeah
Because they do a bit
Of that
Don't they
Ear rake
Yeah
Yeah I'm just
Looking to see
Oh music on vinyl
So if you search for
Music on vinyl
Oh I see
Right it's on that
Music on vinyl
You can find
The presses
And I've got all
Of these
I ordered them
All when they
Came out
Yeah yeah
So I have them
And they are
Super cool
You've got problems
It's the
Yeah I do
I've got a problem
Do you know
You'd be proud of me
Because I still
Haven't ordered
The Napalm Death
So Napalm Death
They've got a
On if you go
Into Ear Rake
They're doing
The first
Oh god knows
How many albums
They've done
But they're doing
Loads of albums there
It's like 200 quid
Really
What for the whole box
Yeah for the big
Big box set
I bought the carcass one
Which is amazing
I've not bought
The Napalm Death one
And I do really
Really want it
And I'm feeling
Quite pleased
I'm feeling like I've
Yeah you've really
Achieved something there mate
Do you want to know
What I thought
We could do next
Oh should we play
A song first
Oh yeah
Let's do that
Yeah
Yeah yeah yeah
Playing for the hate team
Shut out
Cut out
Of the mystery
If you like to play victim
You played a fuck so well
That's how it will treat you
If it loses you so well
Hey there
It's all turning
Look at your world burn
Hey there
It's all burning
Watch your world turn
Play it on the hate team
Shut out
Cut out
Don't you may see
Play it for the hate team
Hate team
Hey there
It's all burning
Watch your world turn
Hey there
It's all burning
Watch your world turn
Hey there
It's all turning
Watch your world burn
Hey there
It's all turning
Watch your world burn
Hey there
It's all turning
Watch your world burn
Hey there
It's all turning
Watch your world burn
Hey there
It's all turning
Watch your world burn
Hey there
It's all turning
Watch your world burn
Hey there
It's all turning
Watch your world burn
You'd rather be
The way I heard
So pathetic
Let your mind set you free
Play it on the hate team
Shut out
Cut out
Out of the mystery
I don't know.
Who's fast? Is this anywhere?
Right. What's next then?
Oh, so what I thought we could do is Static X, Wisconsin death trip.
It's a good home title that is dead good. I like it. Very industrial. Very cool. I super cool. They are just reissuing this, which is why I thought it'd be quite cool to do it. So PR sent me a early copy of it. And it's it's it's really cool. So obviously, yeah, we we lost Wayne. But what they've done is they've gone back through the archives.
And they've found some like old footage and, you know, old recordings and stuff like that.
And so they kind of pulled together. Yeah, this, you know, it's remastered. Yeah, version of of the album. But there's a bunch of other stuff in there to never been released or yeah, I like that kind of stuff. And I think they've done quite a nice job. And there's like a bunch of like if you buy the physical copies of it, there's you know, the vinyl is quite pretty.
Cool. Yeah, you know, photographs and things like that from from back in the day, which we never released for me. I like that kind of stuff that attention to detail. I like it when they do that.
I'm still with his passing, as you say. Yeah, I'm still not a fan of them doing the remaster. I just think just leave the bloody thing alone. Yeah, sounds great. Yeah, leave it. It doesn't need remaster. Like it's like remastering prong album. Just don't do it. Leave it alone. It seems like in this instance, they're just enhancing. Yeah, they've definitely.
And it's been it's been it's been breathed on. Yeah, let's say it's been it's somebody's twiddled knobs on it and that but unnecessarily, I would say probably but yeah, but yeah, there's the stuff surrounding it that I think is pretty cool. So but anyway, I thought it'd be quite a nice thing to do. It's coming up to the it was the anniversary. Yeah, I think as well, I think it fits nice. It's 99. And it lets us kind of see where that industrial where it ended up. Yeah, where the trip went.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. And then we can go somewhere else. I mean, I think maybe that's the last one we do this year. Yeah. And then the next one we do is is 2026. Yeah, yeah. Where we unlock a whole new year of albums. Yeah, we do, don't we? We can do 2001. Yeah. Um, do we do it? Like do we we tie it to the month?
I mean let's just go for the year number
yeah yeah yeah I mean
yeah yeah and
what's the worst that can happen
someone might challenge us on the internet
probably I mean we've not followed our own rules
I mean like shock shock horror
we've broken our own rules
but yeah no I like that
I like the idea of going to do something
a little bit different cool
when perhaps when we come back in January
I don't know whether we go older
go back foreigner more deep
deep purple yeah yeah yeah
I spoke about deep purple recently
or
or we go
we go
go even further back I suppose
rolling stones
you've been threatening a rolling stone
I do yeah I do like the stones
the stones to me like that's part of my upbringing
that kind of you know the early queen
and rolling stones and all of that
was played in the house when I was
when I was growing up
yeah yeah yeah
yeah so that's definitely part of my
yeah
you know
you know that music that you get
like it's it's it's part of your
growing up
but you've got no influence over it
it's the music that your parents were playing
yeah yeah yeah
it's just there isn't it
yeah so so that
that's definitely part of my
my upbringing
but I'd love to do
do that
do you know and
again
there are albums that I know
really well like Beggar's Banquet
so I know that album really really well
I don't know anything about it
yeah
I don't know where it was recorded
we'll probably go do that then
yeah I don't know where it was recorded
don't know
I mean I know who played on it
but I don't know much
no I don't
there's a whole bunch of stuff around that time
yeah
you know like you mentioned
Foreigner, Boston
yeah yeah yeah
there's a whole bunch of kind of
quite cool bands in the 70s
yeah
I like the start
I like the
you know the 70s production
I do as well
there's something really
I don't know
it's kind of an analogue liquid feel to it
but it's got a bit of clarity to it still
yeah
it's kind of got this lovely
you know for me
that one of my memories
and one of the reasons that got me into audio
and stuff in the first place
was sitting in
it was Tamworth Cinema
and they played music
at the beginning
when you're waiting for the film to start
yeah
they used to play this music
and it just hit me
how like crystal clear it was
how
but how beautiful it sounded
it wasn't like
yeah there was nothing jarring in there
there were no sharp edges to it
but it had this bite
and the attack on
like the
I could hear plectrums on the bass guitar
I could hear
you know what I mean
you can hear all these details
and nuances coming through there
yeah
you kind of don't get that
with the 80s music
you didn't get the same stuff
so
so I'd love to go and do some 70s stuff
but likewise
it opens up a bunch of stuff
like it opens up
like Buck Cherry's 15 for us
oh god
there was tons of stuff in 2001
that it kind of opens up for us now
so
I don't know
sounds good
sounds like a plan
so
if we don't see before
which
I've lost track of what day it is
so
we're fine
we've got what we can do
we can do the Static X one next week
yeah
and we'll still be alright
and then we'll have like a Christmas break
yeah
of a week or so
yeah
and then we'll come back in January
yeah
with
with something
that's great
that is a good plan
so thanks for being with
I want to say thanks for being with us
over the year
yeah
it's been
it's been a good year
it has
do you know
I was
I'd got the thing up
I'm going to show you this look
because you'll like this
while we've been
recording
I have this sublog
which shows
this is live
this is for people
listening to the podcast live
so
while we've been on air
someone's listened to the Black Sabbath record
the Black Sabbath episode
Riff 57
good numbers
Riff 10
which was Testament
the New Order
Riff 11
Linkin Park
Hybrid Theory
Riff 70
Bush
16 Stone
L7
and Suicidal Tendencies
that one gets a lot of love still
and then again
someone else
listened to Bricks are Heavy as well
and that's just why we've been on air
that's just great isn't it
it's lovely
it's brilliant
I
sometimes
it's
since
now the show gets listened to
a lot
it's lovely
being able to see people
listening to it
if that makes
if that makes sense
it kind of gives you
you know sometimes
you think
oh
why
do you know what I mean
like coming here
and recording the show
is the fun part
and we get to hang out
and do cool stuff
and muck about
so that's what's driven
us creating
the show
since for a long time
because we've done
lots of different versions
and no one's listened really
but this one
this one's got it
yeah now people are actually
listening
and it's cool
it's kind of
it gives you this like
oh actually
somebody cares
yeah
so if you're doing
a creative project
don't give up
yeah don't stop
don't give up
don't stop
don't give in
and just
just kind of carry on
and eventually
you know
I don't know
there's that
statement isn't there
which then what's
what's for you
won't pass you by
yes
and I like that
so
so there you go
but anyway
I hope you have
a pleasant
holiday
and
and Christmas
and all of the things
whatever you
you do
I'm not a massive
fan of Christmas
as Chris and I
discussed earlier
it's too messy
I don't like tinsel
and
I don't
I just
I don't
I don't like tinsel
and I don't like
baubles
I don't
I like
some of the Christmas
movies I like
yeah
Die Hard
yeah
that's a great
Christmas movie
and
Lord of the Rings
for me
is it
I always associate
Christmas with
Lord of the Rings
yeah
because they all
came out
December time
I like
yeah
so I like
I like that
and
I've definitely
watched that
Lord of the Rings
in full
for me
the Christmas
like
things like
Christmas
things that I
like to do
yeah
as a family
so the family
they all like
Harry Potter
so we often
will watch the
Harry Potter movies
I like to watch
the Alien movies
yeah
they've got nothing
to do with Christmas
I really like them
yeah
so I watch them
it's the only time
of the year
I get to kind of
relax a little bit
yeah
Die Hard
you have to do
yeah
it just is the way
of the world
you have to do Die Hard
and it is a
Christmas movie
yeah
that's about it
really
then it's just
I don't know
I find
I spend the entire
Christmas picking
stuff up
don't you like
people just leave
crap everywhere
yeah
now you keep
buying stuff
off AliExpress
it's like
just tinsel
and cardboard
and what's that
oh it's a
it's an ornament
and why is there
stuff sellotaped
to this
I've just painted
the ceiling
it's like
blue tack
what's all that
all about
it's rubbish
don't like it
anyway
I'm not miserly
really
well I'm a bit
miserly
but there you go
so enjoy Christmas
and we will see you
next week
see you later
bye
and then
yeah
we'll be back
alright
bye
sorry
sorry mum