I don't believe that Elvis is dead
Elvis is dead
I love this album
we're doing Bush 16 stone
it's Riffology
I'm Neil
Chris
you're Chris
brilliant we're in
that's good
that's best intro
I've ever done
nailed it
yeah sort of
that's it
I think we're peaked
we have
thank you for coming
because we keep having weeks off
and you keep coming back
occasionally yeah
and I wanted to say something
can I say something
I want to say
the thing I wanted to say
was that
if you're here
like the show's getting bigger now
yeah
but we're still not massive
no
so that means the algorithm
has chosen you
yeah
to hear us
yeah
yeah yeah
and that makes you dead special
yeah you are special
you've been chosen
you have
by the robots
you have been chosen
and the algorithm
has shown you
us
or has you
shown you
us
and we're here
in your ears
yeah
or
yeah
definitely in your ears
yeah
so thank you for having us
thank you
for having us
in your ears
and you've obviously selected Bush
which means you are American
yes
yeah
because no one
liked Bush in England
no
we liked
I liked it
I like Bush in England
this is one of my favourite records
the only thing I don't like about this album
is it was never bloody released on vinyl here
so if you want vinyl copy of this album
yeah
it's about one million pounds
and you have to have it shipped
and then everybody on Discord goes
I'm not shipping it to the UK
even if you do pay me
so you'll never own this album
one million pounds
yeah
and I've got another boat
actually while I'm on
while I'm on a
yeah
that's two
you said one thing
that's two things
well it's all about the same thing
really
so while I'm on my soapbox
about the vinyls of this right
it was reissued in 2014
yeah
they're 150 quid
you're joking
no
and that's a good copy
yeah
and then it was reissued again
in 2024
yeah
because it was the 30th anniversary
yes
yeah
and I like that
it's really good
I'm totally down with having
the anniversary copy
yeah
that's a double vinyl
yeah
now I know the collectors
like the double vinyl
really gets on my tits
why do you like double vinyl?
because
it's like
there's only two tracks per side
and if I'm like
coding or whatever
I like to put on a record
and then leave it on
yeah
and I don't want to be
having to turn around
every 30 seconds
surely there's an app
to my record player
my record player
is really manual
yeah
and I remember
as a kid
like in the 70s
yeah
we had an automatic thing
it flipped over
it did all that
you know
it sounded like
someone was like
hissing at you
all the time
but it did flip
the flippy flips
yeah yeah yeah
but I don't like that
so if you're
if you're a band
if you're a record company
just can it
with the double vinyl
yeah
stupid
yeah yeah yeah
do you know what I mean
if I had to turn it over
in less than 10 minutes
yeah
it's stupid
but you could
you could design
because you just had
the flippy flips
yeah
and I actually
police car
yeah police car outside
yeah
flippy flips
is a really good brand name
for something that would
turn over your vinyl
flippy flips
yeah
be good wouldn't it
have you got flippy flips
flippy flips on your vinyl
you've got to have flippy flips
on your vinyls
anyway
and as pretty as the
as pretty as the 30th
anniversary is
because they do it in clear
which I like clear vinyl
and they're in red
and I like that too
yeah
it's really nice
yeah
they did a few things
that I dislike
the cover is not the same
oh no
don't like that
and
why would you do that
I don't know
it's like a different
colour
it's like
I don't know
it's like a slightly
different red
no
don't like that
and I don't like
so basically
I love the album
I don't like anything
about trying to get
hold of a copy of it
the original version
is stupid
even a message
from one of my friends
in the states
and
because he's coming over
in April
I'll bring a 16 stone
with you
yeah
I want that
and I want
Superstar Car Wash
yeah
and
can you get
Superstar Car Wash
in the states
no
well
cheaper than here
right
so it'll be like
a hundred quid cheaper
yeah
than I would get it here
in the UK
so I thought
one day you're going to get it
yeah
one day
you're definitely going to get it
and you know what you're going to have
what
a small sense of emptiness
didn't you
oh yeah
that's true
yeah
you love it
and then you think
I don't know
what am I going to do
well Billy Corgan
talked about that this week
did you see him
in the YouTube short
in the video short
not the YouTube short
it might have been a YouTube short
in one of the shorts
basically saying
that
we spend our entire lives
chasing stuff
and
you're always
it's always
oh when I get that thing
I'll be better
when I get that thing
I'll be better
it will make me feel
I'll feel complete
yeah
and then when you get the thing
yeah
don't feel complete
and then you go off
and chase the next thing
yeah yeah
and it was interesting
I thought it was a real
no it makes sense
it does doesn't it
so I don't think you could ever get
I don't think you're actually
ever allowed a copy of
Superstar Garbosh
life is over
yeah
I don't
no because when you're done
that's life complete
and I don't
I think you'll lose all momentum then
it doesn't like
I don't know
I'm not particularly materialistic
I don't really care
I don't
it's not
it's because I like
I want to be able to listen to it
if that makes sense
like that ritualistic thing
of taking it out
and putting it on the record player
it's how it makes me feel
it's not having the thing
it's not like
it's not about
yeah
no
it's not like ticking the box
I'm at that point in my
my stage of life
now I don't chase my career
I'm not bothered about being promoted
I don't really
I don't
I just
I'm at that point where
I just kind of think
I've probably got fewer years left
than I've had
yes
and so
I like making the most of where I am
at the minute
but it's very much for what it does for me now
do you know what I mean
and I want
I want those records
because I know
that I'll enjoy
listening
I know I'll really enjoy listening to them
yeah
I still feel
that horrific sense of emptiness inside
but I can do it
while I'm listening to
the albums
yeah
I'm going to say it as well
this album
it's got one of my
favourite songs in the world on it
which one is it
ever
it's Little Things
Little Things
and I love it
I love
I think the song
is like
virtually perfect
I think it's one of those
I don't know
it's just so
beautifully crafted
yeah
I love it
and I love what it's about
yeah
so it's about
like the lyric
and there's the little things
that kill
and it's all about
getting superstar car washing
it's the little things
sorry
I'll reach the sky
every night
loaded on wrong
and further from right
spinning around
to howling moons
because they're always there
whatever I do
the river is loaded
I've been there today
to get some questions
she tells me again
I'd die in your arms
if you were dead too
here comes a lie
we will always be true
going up and coming down
scratch away
the little things that kill
tear out of my brain
dark and hold on
the little things that kill
the bigger you kill
the bigger you get
the boss I deny them
the best I forget
the cupboard is empty
we really need food
summer is winter
and you always knew
going up and coming down
scratch away
the little things that kill
tear out of my brain
I can't hold on and coming down
It's about relationships
and how it's often and most often
the death by a thousand cuts that kills them
it's not these big things
it's the little things
but it's like the constant little things
that annoy you or somebody does that irritates you
or whatever
and that's what does it
and I just I don't know
that's just something
I mean relationships in general
like friendships
I just think that there's just something about that
that I really liked
I just like I love it
and I also love
it's got Come Down after it
Yeah
and I don't know
those two songs back to back
there's just something about that
That's really special
Come Down is just
I did before we did this podcast
recorded
I do like a music showcase
where there's sort of six artists play in Branston
Yeah
and I always open up
I always get it going
and play some songs
With a banger
Yeah
Well no I do
I normally do about 25 minutes
Yeah
and I chose Come Down
Did you?
Yeah it was the last song
before I finished
and I don't think I quite got it
because I've probably not played it
Yeah yeah yeah
for 20 years
Wow
at least
It's got a funny
I think all of these songs
these songs have got like a funny
I'm going to say phrasing
but I don't know if that's the right thing
but it kind of feels
the pacing of them
feels a little bit
Yeah
and flowy
and they're not
I mean I don't think this
I don't think a click track
has been anywhere near this
No no
it speeds up
and slows down
and it's
oh yes
Yeah it really does
but I played it
and it all
it's strange how it all came back
Oh did it?
So I probably didn't get it
It wasn't probably not perfect
but in terms of like
not playing it for a long time
not really probably hearing it
you know
other than like flipping through it this week
and that sort of thing
Yeah yeah yeah
but there was
but it came out
and it was like oh
Anyone recognise it?
No
I think that would make me happier
I'd be like a bit you know
Yeah
No I had a really good feeling about it
and then
I remembered how that song
it's a really strange thing to say
but I remember how that song
used to make me feel
Yeah
and I was playing it
and it took me back to
Ben Stones' living room
my mate
from when we were kids
and his mum had a
six CD Sony
stacker CD changer
and I was wanting one of those
That's a bit of posh that
Yeah yeah exactly
so I like
we always had like Goodman's
or the cheap one
Sanyo
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
and it was
you know Ventura
that was the one that I had
Sensui
yeah
I can keep going
Yeah
and the CDs went round
and then eventually
I actually ended up with
a Sony six CD
Yeah
stacker CD changer
when I was a little bit older
so it was kind of like that
you know before iPods
and before that sort of stuff
became a thing
but I used to have six CDs
going round all night
every night
Yeah
and this was one of them
Oh yeah
it was one of the records
and I don't know if you ever
you ever did this
but I used to have music on
all the time when I was asleep
and you'd hear the songs in your sleep
and they would feel different
and sound different
and there would be like a different experience
while you're like in a dream
or you know that sort of thing
Yeah yeah
but it's interesting
I know people talk about
when you want to learn something
you know you put it on while you're asleep
Yeah
it goes into your subconscious
and all that
I'm not sure how much truth was in that
but it was just amazing
that obviously that song
had embedded itself in there somehow
How cool is that?
in terms of that
but I do remember
learning it
playing it
and there were two different versions
of that song
so there was a bandy version
Yeah
that sounded full band
Uh huh
but then there was also like a version
that if I recall
had strings
Yeah
two versions
Yeah
and I'm
I don't know where they both appeared on the album
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud
It's taken me all this time to find out what I need
I don't wanna come back down from this cloud
It's taken me all this, all this time
There is no blame, only shame
When you beg, you just complain
The more I come, the more I try
All police are paranoid
So am I
So is the future
So are you
Be a creature
Do you say
Do you do
When it all comes down
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud
It's taken me all this time to find out what I need
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I don't wanna come back down from this cloud
It's taken me all this, all this time
Shut up
Love and hate
Get it wrong
Cut me right back down
Back down to size
Sleep a day
Let it fade
Who else had to take your place?
No one knows
Never will
Mostly me
Mostly you
What do you say?
Do you do?
When it all comes down
Cause I won't come back down
From this crowd
It's taken me all this time
To find out what I need
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I don't wanna come back down
From this crowd
It's taken me all this, all this time
What do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you, what do you.
Calm down.
I don't wanna come back down from this crowd.
I could always get like studio demo time in London, but I never could get signed and my voice was always used as the reason why I couldn't, why I failed.
I was learning, I was learning and I was learning in public and I was failing public and I was, someone asked me yesterday, what's the best piece of advice you ever got during music and I was, I was racking my brains and I was remembering that I once, in my band just before I began Bush, I thought, trying to be really inclusive with the band I was in, I said to the drummer, and we're walking onto the stage, it was the Kingshead pub in Fulham.
And we walked up on stage and I was thinking, you know, in the spirit of the band, what should I say to him, hey buddy, is there anything I should, you know, anything I should look out for, he goes, yeah, yeah, watch the high notes.
I think the changing moment was when I met Nigel in the band and I used to always write with other people and I was, you know, I'm still not that necessarily a great, a good guitar player.
But when I was in between bands and depressed and looking for work, I was contacting different guitar players and suddenly I sat down one day and I said, you know, you're a jerk.
If you call yourself a songwriter, you give yourself to music and you study and you want to do this, sit down and write a song with a guitar already.
What are you doing?
Why are you leaning on people?
So I sat down and the first song I ever wrote was a come down.
I took it to my guitar player, this guy, and he was a real busy guy and I was just another kid jerk coming along trying to start a band with him and he was making good money doing jingles.
So he'd say, I say, you know, do you want to write together?
He said, no, no, no, no.
I think it's better if you bring songs you've got.
I said, yeah, I got one.
He didn't realize that was the only one I had.
So I brought in come down.
He goes, oh, and he put it.
He did the demo for me and we put it down and I suddenly was like, that sounds pretty good.
Nobody in the UK heard this record.
No, at all.
No, wasn't played on MTV.
It was really only played on American radio and that's what broke it.
And that's how people heard about it.
And so they did all kinds of stuff like that.
There were kind of different versions and other bits and pieces that were happening, but you would hear them on the radio.
And then they went, I think they went out on tour with, they went out on tour with this record.
Again, in the US and they opened up, it was Alice in Chains.
Right.
They went out and did a bunch of stuff, but like nothing in the UK.
So you wouldn't have heard.
The alternate version of Come Down, you wouldn't have heard.
Unless you were looking for it.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's also worth pointing out that Gavin Rossdale, who wrote most of the stuff, right?
Come Down was the first song he wrote all the way through himself.
Yeah.
And you're like, what?
Not bad, is it?
It's not a bad start, that one.
How do you even?
It's crazy.
Yeah.
I think there's a, like this album, and it starts with everything zen, right?
And there's a confidence to it.
There's like, it just starts, raging guitar solo, drops in.
You were saying before we recorded, like, you start a song with a guitar solo.
Yeah.
It's the best thing in the world.
You made a great statement.
Yeah.
This is an album.
The album starts with a guitar solo.
It's not an album with a guitar solo.
Yeah.
I just think this, I don't know.
For me, it's like, there's just something really cool about it.
Yeah, yeah.
I like that.
It's the same with Little Things.
If you listen to Little Things, there's like this kind of, I don't know what it is.
It's not a guitar solo.
It's like, there's a, there's a, there's the main riff and the main song's happening.
Yeah.
And then there's like another riff happening.
It's like swirling underneath it, like from nowhere.
Yeah.
And I, I just, I love it.
I, I, I, I love, I love all that.
But, but I think there's a confidence to it.
It's a really confident sounding record.
I think it's, there's no, I don't know.
There's like, there's no missteps in there.
There are no bits where you think, oh, you're just trying that out.
Yes.
Yeah.
Everything's like really solid and in the right place.
And it's, the, the songs are well written and the production is on key.
It's just, everything's mega.
And then you hear an interview with Gavin Rostell going, I don't know what I was doing.
Yeah.
No idea what I was doing.
Just threw it together really.
And you know, well, I didn't know.
And everyone was telling me it was shit.
Yeah.
Everybody said it was rubbish.
Every single person we took it to, not interested, don't care.
Even to the point that the record, so they got signed by that record.
Label in the Valley.
And I've kind of forgotten that.
Trauma.
Yeah.
So they get signed by Trauma, right?
And, oh, does this, sorry, this is before Trauma.
Right.
So they get signed before Trauma.
Yeah.
And so they've got a deal with, was it Disney's part of Disney?
Anyway, they got signed with this label.
They pull the album together, submit the album, and then they get ripped apart.
And the record label are like, there are no singles on this at all.
And even worse, there are, there are no album tracks on it.
So just go away.
So they'd got, they'd got this.
And at that point, they were called Future Primitive, I think.
Yeah.
And on our blog, you'll see there's a cassette on there.
It says Future Primitive.
I'm showing Chris the picture of the cassette.
And it's, it's, I mean, it's, but it's basically the 16 stone album, but in a different, or slightly
different order.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's still those tracks.
It's still the same recording.
Well, yeah.
Everything's End, Swim, Little Things, Bomb, Testosterone, Come Down, Machine Head, Monkey,
Body, Glycerine, and Alien.
Yeah.
Just to say, single title songs, absolutely the way forward.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Single title songs.
Yeah.
About seven minutes long.
Probably the best.
Seven minutes long.
I'm with you.
I think I like, I like, I like short stuff.
So, so, so they've dropped.
Yeah.
Right.
So at this point, they've got 16 stone recorded.
They've showed it to their record company.
They've said it's junk.
Gavin has gone back to being a painter and decorator.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just dicking about.
And then, and then Trauma, who is another record company, because their manager, so the,
the Bush manager was, he'd had some dealings with US record companies.
Record company, so he's just kind of sending this thing out to everybody.
Yeah.
The only one that got back were Trauma, who were the tiniest of tiny record labels, imagine,
literally two dudes who were surgeons who've quit and decided to start a record label.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like the tiniest record label ever.
All of their muscle and distribution is held by Interscope.
So they sign acts and then they've got this relationship with Interscope where Interscope will distribute and, you know, put a bit of muscle behind it.
So they sign, they sign Bush.
No one cares.
Interscope, no one cares.
Trauma send a couple of the tracks out to the radio stations and then a couple of them catch and go absolutely bonkers.
Then Interscope notice and start putting a little bit of weight behind it.
At this point, Gavin's still painting dentist's office in London.
So they drag him over to do PR and other bits and pieces and then it starts to snowball and becomes massive.
Didn't say earlier that there was this thing about, you know, everyone, the songs were big.
Yeah.
And there was a sort of playground fight about where they came from because a lot of people.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
A lot of people thought they were an American band.
And then it was only when Gavin starts to speak that you realise he doesn't sound.
He's definitely not from Seattle.
And he didn't look like he was from Seattle either.
He kind of maintained that British.
He looked like a British punk band.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tell you, when I first finished 16 Stone, I signed a deal with a small independent label in the Valley.
Everyone was saying, do not sign, you know, from London a deal in the Valley.
You're never going to see this guy again.
I got to make the record.
And then there was a tragic, the Frank Wells, who was the head of Disney and he had that Hollywood Records.
And he died tragically in a helicopter crash.
So they inherited the 16 Stone record that had like five number one records on it and sold, I don't know, 20 million copies itself.
And they said, not only there are no album tracks, there's not only no singles on this record.
There's no album tracks.
And so we got dropped.
So I went back to work and I painted 11 identical offices, dentist offices.
Because I used to paint and decorate to make money, to make music.
And there were 11 of them.
So it was like a Kafka nightmare.
During that four month process, I got a call.
They said, your record is broken on K-Rock.
I was like, that's great.
What's K-Rock?
So there we are, right?
And now Bush are a massive.
Loads of money is coming in.
Album is like, you know, massive.
It's selling like bucket loads of copies.
Everyone's happy.
Interscope are brilliantly happy because they're getting tons of cash coming in there.
Trauma, who signed them, are getting this dribble of money.
And they're like, hang on a minute.
This is like the biggest album of the year.
And they didn't get any money.
Yeah.
They wanted more money for signing.
Interscope were taking their money for distributing.
Yeah.
So Trauma then took Interscope to court for, I think it was $100 million.
Yes.
I think it was settled in 2000, although it doesn't say how much.
But it was, I mean, it must have been a significant amount.
Yeah, yeah.
But apparently Interscope were lying to Trauma about how much, how many copies had been sold.
Wow.
So imagine that it's like the biggest album.
It's number one everywhere.
It's huge.
You've got glycerin in all the charts.
And then Discope would go, yeah, no, it's not.
Yeah, so it's also.
Yeah.
Hardly sold any copies.
It's not really worth it.
But I went down this rabbit hole with this, right?
Because I thought, I wonder how common that is.
No Doubt were on the same record label.
They were signed by Trauma.
They were distributed by Interscope.
Exactly the same thing happened.
Same thing happened.
But Trauma didn't take Interscope to court.
They took No Doubt to court for that one.
And that was settled as well.
Yeah.
So the dentists.
And obviously Gavin Rossdale and Gwen Stefani, they were an item for many years, weren't they?
I don't know.
No way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't notice that.
That's very interesting, yeah.
It is?
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, yeah.
There we go.
Boom.
It was all down to Trauma.
Fact.
They are fact.
I just think it's just, I don't know.
It's just such a, I don't know.
Like, you sum out, we've covered albums in the past.
And we did Back in Black, right?
And I thought that was a really interesting story.
You know, the band kind of over pretty much.
Yeah.
Not happening.
Yeah, the singer died.
The singer died.
It's like, no one was really sure what was going to come next.
Replace the singer.
You know, Brian joins.
Doesn't really know what's going on.
Same thing though, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Like, he was just at home doing jobs.
Yeah, just chilling.
Yeah, yeah.
Mowing his lawn.
And then, and then all of a sudden, just gets dragged down.
Oh, can you?
And then you're in.
You're in the biggest band in the world.
Yeah, then Back in Black comes.
And you're like, oh, okay.
So, but there are stories behind some of these albums when you get that.
And, you know, there are others.
I mean, Appetite for Destruction is probably another one where, you know, their band are
kind of chaotic.
It's like bottled lightning and trying to get them to, you know, pull things together and
produce the record.
This one is different to me.
This one, like, there was no issue getting it recorded.
The problem was nobody cared.
And at any point, Gavin could have just, do you know what?
Yes, leave it then.
Let's just leave it.
Let's just not bother.
It's not working.
Let's.
Yeah.
And he, but in every step, you know, being turned down by people, being told it's rubbish.
There's a lovely bit in some of the interviews that you pulled where all of the British record
labels are saying, well, you can't sing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What are you doing?
You mean, go and get a singer.
Yeah.
Because you can't, you can't sing.
There's no, no one's going to pick this record with your wailing on it.
It's not happening.
And the press, the British press, like NME and Melody Maker, they ripped it apart.
They were like, it's derivative.
It's boring.
It's like Nirvana light.
It's, you know what I mean?
And they were absolutely brutal about it.
Yeah, yeah.
And.
And then come down happens.
Glycerine happens.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Like, imagine.
It is, it is a band though, isn't it?
It's a band where it didn't matter.
Yeah.
It didn't matter what anybody else said.
Yeah.
Because people got it.
Yeah.
Eventually.
Yeah.
Yes.
Eventually.
People, people picked it up and people got it, particularly in America.
I think it's that bit like getting to that part for me where, you know, sometimes like life feels really hard.
And I'm sure Gavin through all of this was just like, I, I don't know whether, you know, I don't know whether this is the right thing.
You know, I don't know whether I'm doing the right thing.
Yeah.
Or, or whether, you know, is this even, you know, is this a total waste of time?
Yeah.
I suspect if he'd got like a, I suspect if he was a dentist.
Yes.
It'd have got, oh, do you know what?
I'm just going to be a dentist.
Do you know what I mean?
Or if he'd been, you know, if he'd got like a, if his backup career had have been like more significant.
And, you know, I just don't think he'd, it's really hard in that face.
I think this album only came about because Gavin didn't have a fallback plan.
There was nothing to fall back on.
It was, do you know what I mean?
It was either I'm going to be successful at music or nothing.
And everything else that he did in life was just to enable him to make more music.
Yes.
And so it almost, like all of the negativity and all of the, you know, the people telling him he was rubbish.
I don't know.
I, I, I can't imagine for one second that that didn't have an impact on him because you can't have all that all the time.
No.
You know, and you, and you, we've, we've, we've heard interviews before.
And I'm, I'm reminded of James Hetfield without, like his press was super positive about his voice and about Metallica.
Yeah.
But he didn't feel it.
Yeah.
That he was a terrible vocalist.
So, and we all tend, I think we all do that.
I think, you know, we all think we're rubbish and, you know, you, there's that, I don't know.
We're all our worst critic, I think, you know, I mean, I'm guessing there are, I'm sure like one or two people out there that are not.
But I think in my experience, the vast majority of people are way harder on themselves than anyone around them.
So Gavin's been like harder on himself.
And then, and then the critics are like, well, you can't sing, you're rubbish.
Songs are rubbish.
Yeah.
Not as good as Nirvana.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just go and do something else.
Yeah.
And yet still pushed on.
I don't know.
There must have been a real sweetness to it though.
You know, when, when you get in your, your platinum albums, you know, you're, you know, you're in their hand over the gold and the platinum.
You've got to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
He's crying now.
There's got to be a bit of that.
I think.
There's got to be a bit of that.
Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out, breathe in.
Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in.
Tied to the wheel, a thing that's got to feel.
Bleeding through a tautical smile.
A spin on a whim, a slide to the right.
I felt you like an electric light.
For our love, for our fear, for our eyes against your ears and ears and ears.
Got a machine head.
Out of red.
Green to the red.
Got a machine head.
Out of red.
Green to the red.
Got a machine head.
Out of red.
Green to the red.
Got a machine head.
Out of red.
Green to the red.
Got a machine head.
Out of red.
Green to the red.
Green to red
What I want from my machine
Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in
Breathe out, breathe in
Just don't feel it in
Starting to deserve this
Leading all my conscience to war
Blood is like wine
Unconscious all the time
If I had it all again, I'd change it all
Got a machine hair
It's better than the rest
Green to red
Must in a hair
Got a machine hair
It's better than the rest
Green to red
Yeah
What I want from my machine
I want from my machine
Got a machine hair
It's better than the rest
Green to red
Must in a hair
Yeah
Got a machine hair
It's better than the rest
Green to red
Must in a hair
Got a machine hair
It's better than the rest
Green to red
I'm a machine, I'm a machine, I'm a machine, I'm a machine.
How do I make a rock record that matters, how do I make a rock record that anybody cares
about, how do I get out to my audience, how do I be the father I want to be, how do I
be the husband I want to be, you know, and combine all those things much like anyone else.
It's a struggle to just fit it all in and figure it out.
So I think that it's, for me personally, how it resonates is that it's about how to get
things done and how to achieve the most possible because, you know, there's so many pressures
and deadlines and get this right, get that right, and that's what it is for me, you know.
Machine Head.
Yeah.
Good song.
I like octaves.
Do you?
Yeah.
Tell us more about those.
So when you play a guitar, oh, there's a guitar here.
Hang on.
Are you going to do guitar playing?
You're going to be like Rick Beato.
Yeah, but it's not plugged in.
Hang on a minute.
So I'm going to get the, this is an electric guitar.
Yeah.
And I'm going to put it next to the mic, so.
That's one octave.
Yeah.
That's another octave.
Yeah.
The same note.
Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
But they're two octaves apart.
They're both E's.
Yeah, but a bit higher.
So that's when you play them both together.
Yeah.
And they're called octaves.
I like that.
And that's what you have in that song at the start.
So earlier you said.
Yeah.
I like listening to this album because it sounds like the kind of stuff that you play.
Yeah.
And that's a big, a big feature of what I play, octaves.
Ah.
I play use them quite a lot, you see.
That's very good.
I enjoyed that.
And now you know.
Now you know about octaves.
I want to talk about post-grunge.
Yes.
Can I do that?
Yes.
Post-grunge.
So is this considered post-grunge?
This is post-grunge.
Yes.
Now.
It's got synth in it.
You discovered that.
That was post-rock.
Was that post-rock?
Yeah.
If you've got post-rock, it's got synth.
Post-rock has got synth synth.
Now post-grunge is a bit, post-grunge.
I was in the bath earlier arguing with chat GPT.
As you do.
Now chat GPT was like, this is post-grunge.
Were you using Atlas?
I've been using Atlas a bit, yeah.
Was that for what this was with?
No, no.
I just got her on like voice.
Yeah.
So like I was literally, I was quite literally in the bath.
I'd got, I'd got this album on.
And I was on.
Having a chat with the AI.
So I put the AI on and I was just having this argument and like, I know this is definitely
post-grunge.
And I was going, well, what makes it any, I don't, why is it different to grunge?
Explain to me the difference between this and grunge.
And, and it comes down to, well, so I kind of get it.
And I did read a little bit more about it afterwards, right?
And I, it comes down to, so there's product, there's definitely a production difference.
Yeah.
So, but it's re, I would say it's, it's subtle, but it's noticeable and it's kind of smoother
and more compressed.
It's, it's, it's like a rock production rather than grunge, which is more punk production.
It was dry.
It was fuzzy guitars, but it was, but it was quite, it was cool to be out of tune and not
have a chorus for it to be a bit spiky in places.
And, um, and yeah, they had the big riffs, big fuzzy guitars, but there, there is a, uh,
like a movement around grunge, which was a lot, a lot, a lot of similarities to punk rock where
it was kind of like, you know, if, if it's commercially successful, you're dead.
So if you, if you're not in this gang, you're doomed as well, you're doomed.
You're, you know, that's that you're not part of the community anymore.
Whereas post grunge, bigger, definitely choruses, more, um, more commercial, um, aspects to
it.
So by that, what I mean, it's kind of more poppy and hooky in places.
And the production was, was bigger and, and rocket more like kind of heavy rock production.
Yeah.
You see, that's the thing is when I've always thought of Bush, I never even positioned him
in my brain as a grunge band.
No.
And I don't with the pumpkins to be fair either.
I mean, there were bits of it that were like the early stuff was, but they're a rock band
that they say like Bush is a rock band to me.
Yeah.
That's what, that's what Bush sounds like.
It's not, it's not a grunge band, which is interesting because, because of what was going
on in England at the time, which was your Oasis and your blur and your Brit pop.
And it was like semi-acoustic guitar, semi, sorry.
Yeah.
Semi-acoustic, semi-acoustic guitars with the hollow F holes and, um, you know, orange amps
and late and Lainian high one, those sort of things.
The, the, the American sound, which was more of you sort of Marshall, you Fender, you know,
those kinds of rockier sort of sounding amps, Mesa Boogie, that sort of thing.
You wouldn't see Oasis or Brit pop, but guys using a Mesa Boogie, whereas you would
see Metallica, you know, the, like these guys perhaps using these, these, more of these
kind of amps, like the Marshalls sort of thing.
That bigger, thicker.
Yeah.
And I think that's, that's why to me, the Brit, the British didn't get it because it wasn't
the same like colour scheme, if you like, in tone.
It wasn't the same palette.
Um, whereas the Americans were very averse to, is that the right word?
Averse, agreeable?
Agreeable to, um, the, the, the, the, the, the, like more driven guitar sounds, not the
Spy, not, not the orange or the AC30 kind of thing.
I think, I think there's a couple of things going on here that I want to, I want to talk
through a little bit.
Yeah.
So, um, and I think there's a lot of similarities, right?
So in the UK, we, we didn't have this scene at all.
We had Blur and Oasis, right?
And that album, the album, the, the, certainly, um, what's the story Morning Glory was where
the loudness wars started.
Right.
Yep.
And it was, it, it kind of started because stuff needed to sound good on the radio.
So the, the compressors were being wound up a little bit more and the volume was being
wound up a little bit more.
and stuff wasn't being cut to vinyl anymore or to analog cassette anymore.
So it was going, you had more range.
Yeah.
It was going straight out to digital format.
So you could, you knew exactly where the envelope edge was.
So you could nudge it to that.
Yeah.
So that if, if, um, if like Pulp or Blur was played before your track.
Yeah.
And then, and then Oasis came on and it was, you know, two dB louder.
Yeah.
Your track would sound better.
Yeah.
Okay.
And this was kind of happening in, in the, you know, in the UK and it was kind of, that's
what was, what was driving the music here to some degree.
In the US, the same thing is happening.
Yeah.
But it's happening on like American rock radio.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so the same stuff is happening.
If you, if you look at it, where the, the stuff that's super popular, like, like live
and Creed and, and Bush and all of these big, thick, um, like American rock bands.
Yeah.
They're compressed, they're compressed to be Jesus and the, and, and the volumes through
the roof, cause they've got to sound good on, and they've got to sound good on the, the
radio and, and cause that's where you're being broken now.
You're not, you know, it's changed a little bit.
You're not necessarily being broken on MTV.
Although MTV still existed.
Yeah.
These radio stations were in the radio presenters themselves were kind of rock stars as well.
Yeah.
That's true.
So you had Howard Stern.
There was, there was an area, there was an area, wasn't there where the radio, the presenters
were the rock stars.
Yeah, exactly.
And so, you know, you've, you've got, um, you've got this, uh, environment, I guess,
where, you know, uh, there are two scenes.
So, you know, here in the UK, we, we got our scene and then in the, in the US, you kind of
had this stuff happening.
Yeah.
And they're so different that you don't, you don't really hear them, but there's one bit
and there's another bit I was arguing with chat GPT about, there is one.
Can you get, can you remember?
It was in the crossover band.
Can you remember there was a track?
Okay.
In the nineties.
Yeah.
One of them.
Yeah.
Sounded straight out of post grunge.
Yeah.
Okay.
It was massive in the UK.
Stilt skin inside.
Stilt skins inside.
Yeah.
Sound identical.
You could pluck that and pop it into any of these records out of the, the kind of post
grunge scene.
Yeah.
We loved it.
Yeah.
Lapped it up.
Number one.
Absolutely.
For ages as well.
Yeah.
The rest of the record.
Well, there wasn't a rest of the record.
They'd only done this one single and then they very quickly slapped an album around it.
Well, I don't even think there's a band.
No, it was.
I think it was Pete Lawler and then, and then they, and then they got the singer guy because
the music.
I'm looking.
It's interesting because I can't find it.
I was looking at, I was going to play you a clip.
Right.
And I can't find it.
I can find it live.
Yeah.
I was in that song.
Yeah.
I thought it would have been on that.
I've got inside live.
It says top songs from the band Stilt Skin.
Inside live, fly high, constantly footsteps, accidents, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
but it's not there.
And then I can see a copy of it from Ray Wilson.
Yeah.
Ray Wilson's the singer.
He joined Genesis.
That's like a live thing.
It's all live.
Oh, it is the right one.
Yeah.
But I can't find it.
Yeah.
So he ended up, he ended up singing for Genesis.
There has to be.
Oh, what?
Yeah.
But there has to be something going on with the rights.
Yeah, it must be.
Yeah.
Because it's not, I can't find it on the stream ring.
From what I remember, it was a Levi's advert.
Well, he's like Levi 501 ad.
Yeah.
And Pete Lawler, Peter Lawler.
Yeah.
He, I've actually spoke to him on the phone.
So he wrote it.
He, he, yeah, he wrote the song, but it was instrumental on the, on the album, on the, on
the advert.
And then it kicked off and it's like, it needs to be a band.
Right.
So they built the band around the advert.
Yeah.
If I've got my facts straight.
The thing that I don't get.
He did.
He did as well.
This orange advert, you know, orange mobile phones.
Yeah.
I liked orange.
And it was around in the cinemas.
This advert was, this particular advert.
Orange Wednesdays, Orange Shoes.
What was it?
Do you remember those?
Yeah, it was Orange Wednesdays.
Yeah.
And there was this particular piece of music that he did.
Yeah.
And it was beautiful.
I can't, you know, it was just a bit of musical and advert, but it was so, so good.
It's dead good, isn't it?
Yeah.
Now, riddle me this.
Mm-hmm.
why was that successful, but Come Down and Glycerine and, you know, little things.
Why did we ignore all of that?
But we lapped up.
Still skin.
Still skin inside.
But only one song.
Yes.
Yeah.
For the whole of the 90s, we had one post-grunge song that we liked.
It sounded amazing as well.
Oh, God, that was...
The sound of Inside was just massive.
It was, wasn't it?
Yeah.
It did sound incredible.
And I think I love that sound.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And sometimes when I mix now and produce, you know, like, I can't, I, because I go for that
big, that big sound and don't quite ever get it right, because I'm trying, everything's
fighting with everything else.
It's hard, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
But it, but it, but it is absolutely, definitely post-grunge.
Yeah.
In the UK.
Yeah.
And we liked it.
I don't know whether that landed, because it was Scottish, wasn't it?
I don't think that landed in the US.
No, no.
Bizarre.
Yeah.
Proper bizarro stuff.
I remember, because it was on Top of the Pops, wasn't it?
Yeah.
Ray Wilson had his furry hood on.
He did.
He had, like, a cloak with a furry hood on there.
Is that a euphemism?
Name me some other post-grunge albums, post-grunge band.
Post-grunge bands?
Yeah.
So, what do you call live post-grunge?
Yeah.
Candlebox.
I did like, uh, live.
Silverchair.
Silverchair, of course, yeah.
No, Chachi, again, I was fine with Chachi Petit again.
She said-
Have we done Diorama yet?
No.
Oh, we must.
We should do that.
We can do an L7 next, though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because we've got a plan, but we could definitely Diorama after that.
She said Collective Soul.
Oh, Diorama might be too new.
Oh, yeah.
Might be.
But she said Collective Soul.
I like Collective Soul.
Yeah.
Not post-grunge.
No, no.
Stupid AI.
Honestly, just like random crap.
Not random crap.
It's weird AI, isn't it?
Skunk and Nancy?
No.
They have bits of it, but they were a bit, yeah.
They were here, weren't they?
They hopped around.
Yeah, I wouldn't put them in post-grunge, so they were, I don't know.
They were quite bitey.
Yeah, they were quite bitey, yeah.
Proto-grunge.
What's proto?
Proto-grunge.
What's proto?
Proto-punk rock.
Oh, is it?
Yeah, they were, definitely, yeah.
What about if you had a band that was Proto-Toto?
Oh, my God.
Proto-Toto.
I love that.
Yeah.
It's going to be done.
Can I, can I, so, we've talked about it a little bit.
We're talking about Britpop and that, but the press in the UK were horrific to Bush.
They hated all of these, but it wasn't just Bush, they were horrible too.
When I was reading this afternoon, they hated all of these bands.
Right.
So, you know, all of them, like, kind of, you know, like Live and Silverchair, Creed, there's
a massive glut of these kind of American, like, American rock or post-scrunge.
They lumped them all together and said they're all derivative and rubbish and they all wish
they were Nirvana, but they're not Nirvana.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They should all just, like, pack it in.
Yeah.
Which I think is just, I don't know, I thought it was just, it's bonk.
I mean, you look back at it.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know, what was all that about?
Yeah.
It's all right to have an opinion.
I remember my friend, he was like a Radio 2.
Is it because they weren't Britpop, though?
Is it that simple?
I don't know.
It could be.
Like, I think there was like an anti-American thing happening around this time, from Musical.ly.
Music, right, right.
It seemed to be, certainly in the British press.
Like it was cheesy or something.
Yeah.
It was like, it's too easy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I remember my...
Yeah, because Nickelback got absolutely...
I mean, there's a little bit later for Nickelback, but they were...
They had that song, How You Remind Me, didn't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it was a massive song.
It was brilliant.
Yeah, yeah.
It was so good.
They got such good songs.
And then everyone suddenly hated them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I agree.
They got too big, I think, didn't they?
Like Coldplay got too big.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not a big fan of Coldplay, but they're brilliant songwriters.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they are...
They just got too big.
And it's easy to make fun of them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, which I think, I don't know.
I think that is, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, where that goes?
But yeah, certainly in the UK, we were not, the press were not, people, fans were there.
Yeah, yeah.
But nowhere near as big as they were in the UK.
And you can see that from the release, you know, the release schedule.
Like I would say, the vinyl never got released.
There's a bunch of stuff that never got released here.
Yeah, yeah.
This stuff was released in Japan, in Germany.
Yeah.
But we didn't get it.
We were, we were still obsessing over Blur and Pulp.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And Blur, not the other one, Blur and, oh God, my brain's gone.
What's the other one?
Not Pulp, the other one.
Oasis?
Oh, no.
Oh yeah, Blur and Oasis.
That's it, yeah, yeah.
Suede?
I liked Suede.
Animal Nitrate.
Suede were a bit punk-rocky, weren't they?
They were, like, all the other bands were very, you know, like Oasis were very, you know,
I don't know, they were rock stars, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They were, like, throwing TVs out of stuff.
Suede were the band that you thought, oh, they'd be really cool to hang out with.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Menswear.
There was loads of them.
Yeah.
Sleeper.
Elastica.
Oh, God, yeah, Elastica.
Yeah.
I want to move on a little bit as well.
I want to talk about lyrics.
Yes, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
This album's full of bonkers lyrics.
Yeah.
And it was only when you go and look at the lyrics and then dig in a little bit, like,
half of it makes no sense.
Like, zero sense.
It's just, like, that is so out of context.
Some of it makes sense.
And you think, I can see the parallels between that.
There's, like, in Little Things, there's a bit where it says, the cupboard is bare, we really need food.
Summer is winter and you always knew.
And you think, well, what does that mean?
Yeah.
And then when you, oh, the song's about the relationship thing and that, oh, it kind of makes sense.
But then the beginning lyrics make no sense whatsoever.
And I found a lovely bit where Gavin talks about how he pulls lyrics together.
And it's very David Bowie-esque.
It's kind of, like, some of it's almost poetry.
And some of it's, it just likes the words and needs to find a home for them.
And some of it just feels right in the song.
Yeah.
And some of it are lyrics that fit the song.
Yes.
And they're all just in the song.
Yeah.
So from, like, verse to verse, you might be getting stuff that just he liked the sound of.
Stuff he wrote, like, poetically that he kind of thought sounded cool and put that in.
Yeah.
And then a bit in there that he thought, you know, was absolutely about the song itself.
I don't know.
I'm trying to think of other songs.
David Bowie is one that, he's the only one, really, that springs to mind that used to do that.
But I don't know.
There's just something.
Pearl jams sometimes.
I have no idea what he's saying.
Yeah, Pearl jams.
I have no idea what Eddie Vedder says, ever.
Not a clue.
See, they were a band.
They were a grunge band that went post-grunge, weren't they?
And now they're just, like, straight up rock and roll, really, aren't they?
They're just a rock band now, aren't they?
Yeah, rock, yeah.
We've got to do an REM album.
We must do an REM album.
Do you know why?
Do you know why we've got to do an REM album?
No.
Of course.
Because it sounds a lot like Donald Trump singing.
Genuinely.
Like, stop the show.
If you're listening, stop the show.
Go and listen to REM.
Play a Donald Trump interview.
Yeah.
They sound the same.
And I love that.
I just love the idea.
I don't know.
I don't know what's going to be.
I've never picked that up at all.
The universe has gone mad.
Yeah.
But yeah.
Hasn't it gone crazy?
Yeah, the universe has gone mad.
Yeah.
It's got Donald Trump singing on REM albums.
And I didn't expect that.
Did you?
No.
But he's there.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's there doing his thing.
He's probably backstage.
He's in the studio doing the best words.
I would like to finish before we start talking about the next week and what we do.
Yeah.
I've not finished yet.
I've got to talk about the artwork.
Oh, sorry.
I'm not ready.
Sorry.
I'm not ready.
You've just...
I just wanted to talk about Glycerine, though.
Oh, go on.
Yeah, I like Glycerine.
Oh, it just is.
So, Mike Tivy...
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Who I do...
I've heard of Mike.
You do painting with him, don't you?
Painting with him.
Yeah, yeah.
We were actually...
We were joining a Blood Bowl League.
Oh, you said.
Yeah.
So, that's it.
We're in.
That sounds dangerous.
Yeah, yeah.
It's not...
It's brilliant.
It's like 10 quid a year.
Yeah.
And then you join the app.
Yeah.
And then you play games every month.
Yeah.
And then you leave.
But I'm really bad.
This is the problem.
I'm not very good at these things.
That's good, though, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, we'll see how that goes.
Anyway, Mike...
Yeah.
Brilliant singer.
Yeah.
Has this...
Well, not so much now, actually.
It's quite softened off now.
Yeah.
But back in the day when we were at college together...
Yeah.
He could sing.
He had this voice.
So, I think we should get in a band.
I'll do the drums.
Yeah.
Not very well.
Yeah.
And Mike can sing the music not quite as well as he used to do.
And you can show us how to play the E chord.
Yeah.
And it's going to be great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's going to be great.
Yeah.
So, Mike had...
Yeah, he's kind of got more of a country sort of voice now.
Yeah.
I suppose you'd say that.
Like Taylor Swift.
Like old.
No, like old.
Old country.
Old country's like rock and roll, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a bit indie-er.
Yeah, yeah.
But he used to have a very grunge voice.
So, Eddie Vedder, Gavin Rossdale...
Do you think he could get that back?
Yeah, I'm sure he could.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
But he...
We're only having...
He's only joining the band if he can do...
So, he had...
He sang Glycerine a lot.
Yeah.
And I never liked singing it because I thought he sounded better singing it.
Oh, that's interesting.
So, I like singing Come Down because I quite like singing Come Down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I wouldn't ever play Glycerine because Mike sounded better singing it and I liked it
when he did it.
There's a few songs like that that Mike sang, actually.
Yeah.
He did Tuesday's Gone by Lynyrd Skynyrd with Dan Baker.
So, they used to play together.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I preferred Mike's song version to the original.
Really?
Yeah.
I thought it was pretty...
The way he sang it, it's more like the Metallica version, but he sort of did his own thing with
a little bit as well.
Yeah.
There's a bit of...
Ooh-ah!
Yeah.
And then there were...
Yeah, there were a couple of others as well.
Black by Pearl Jam, he did really well.
Yeah, there was a few.
But anyway...
He was just born in the wrong country.
If he'd been born in the Pacific Northwest, he'd have been a megastar.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you remember me telling this story about my friend who sang Seven Shikings and Blacks Out?
Yeah.
That's Mike.
Is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Pantera?
Yes.
I didn't know that was Mike.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, he said he sang it and then he had to...
It blacks him out for a bit.
He had to have a lie down.
Yeah.
Aw.
Yeah.
Bless him.
It must be your skin, I'm sinking in.
It must be for real, cause now I can feel.
I didn't mind.
It's not my kind.
It's not my time.
Don't wonder why.
Everything gone white.
Everything's grey.
Now you're here.
Now you're away.
I don't want this.
Remember that.
I'll never forget where you're at.
Don't let the days go by.
Kiss of rain.
I'm never alone.
I'm alone all the time.
Are you at one?
Or do you lie?
We live in a wheel where everyone steals.
When we rise, it's like strawberry fields.
I'm treating you bad.
You bruised my face.
Couldn't love you more.
You've got a beautiful taste.
Don't let the days go by.
Could have been easier on you.
I couldn't change, though I wanted to.
Should have been easier by three.
Our old friend feeling you and me.
Glycerine.
Don't let the days go by.
Glycerine.
Don't let the days go by.
I... I...
Glycerine, Glycerine
Bad moon, what a gun?
I'm not one again, and she falls around me
I needed more, who wanted us less
Could not kiss, just regress
It might just be, clear and simple or plain
Well that's just fine, that's just one of my names
Don't let the days go by
Could've been easier on you, you, you
Glycerine
The artwork designed by Matt Cook
now on the art world why does that name spring about i don't know it's other things probably one
of your friends um uh but there's a bit it's like a crt like a cathode ray tube tv yeah and it's got
loads of zeros and ones on there yes and apparently people have tried to decipher it for years and
years and years thinking it's binary yeah um and i know about computers yeah it's not it's not binary
no i don't know what it is it just looks like numbers to me um but interestingly somebody came
out not that long ago uh and said that it is just numbers and it was just the aesthetic yeah
there's like this and i like things like that i think they missed a trick though yes i think that
would have been yeah it's kind of midnight it's kind of you know that kind of era when the matrix was
like late nights when the matrix was kind of around and um this was obviously predates that but
is that kind of era where hacking and the internet was like 96 the internet was starting and you know
people were were getting online yeah you know you're getting adverts scaring old people saying
get online or yeah yeah yeah but i don't know what you know where the album name came from
allegedly there's two stories i've heard okay you tell me yours the story that i've heard is the one
where it was something like one of the band members or one of gavin rossdale's mates i'm not sure which
yeah went on a date yeah this is the same one um is it and and but the girl the girl like presented
herself previous to him a bit yeah yeah and said that she was probably a little bit bigger slimmer than
she was yeah yeah yeah and then she was 16 stone so they decided to know only only like rock albums do
do you know what i mean like like that guy that guy would have been that would have been his nickname
for like years yeah yeah it would have just been been abused yeah what's the other story then
um it's similar it's it's a similar story but it's a it was about uh somebody else in the band
it was somebody else in the band right right right yeah um where else did i get oh uh i wanted to talk
about um the making of the album yes it was recorded in west side studios in london um recorded by
clive langer and alan winst stanley who were famous for do you know oh no i don't know madness david
bowie and morrison that's you see you wouldn't no you wouldn't put that together no it doesn't sit
that doesn't compute that doesn't no it doesn't sound like it no i don't i don't but he wanted steve
albini didn't he oh we don't know yeah he wanted still he wanted he was he went he went out for
that he wanted that sound he wanted that nirvana sound he wanted the in utero thing and yeah but um
because of the you just copied nirvana thing that wouldn't have worked no for this i don't think that
i don't think this record would have been successful if it had that dry yeah uh do you know what i mean
that kind of dry early nirvana sort of kind of bleach i don't think that would have worked um i mean
i don't know maybe maybe i think it kind of works because it's got the big it's got the
london sound yeah yeah it's got this big thick it doesn't sound like a london album to me no it
sounds like a big fat american radio rock record yeah yeah that's what it sounds like to me again you
know you grew up in london so you you you grew up through dub so dub music we lived in west london
is all that whole notting hill with the carnival that sound you know all and in the great greatest
record stores in the world with all the kind of jamaican seven inch singles all that stuff and then
house music wasn't so i you know i wasn't so into house but but then you get it i like some of the
techno like underworld is one of my favorite bands and they're incredible so that got me into a little bit
techno and then you hit drum and bass and that went into jungle and then you got into you know now you
have trap and you know things that go on it's just it's just always the evolution of dance is really
interesting i've always been into that and aware of it and you know especially after you've made guitar
music after a while sometimes you don't want to hear guitars you know it's the worst thing to hear you
know i just think there's so much that all kinds of music has to offer do you know where the band name
comes from no i don't actually shepherd's bush is it that simple apparently yeah um they were called
future primitive yes their manager basically said that's shocking don't be called that don't be
called that yeah and then they were all right then we need another name yeah and he was like you want a
single yeah single word band name yeah and they were in shepherd's bush so they called the band bush
other that was shepherd i suppose the rumor is that's where it came from um we already talked
about it quickly that uh they were signed by trauma and then uh trauma had uh two acts really big acts
bush and no doubt um and that uh that record label they went to court in 2000 and then went disappeared
they were paid off basically disappeared off a planet both acts then landed with interscope um which uh
yeah i don't know i think it's really interesting that's all i have got for this album other than if
you've got a copy of it and you're in the uk and you want to sell it and you don't want a million
pounds for it hit me up i can pay you in i like fruit pastels can we talk very briefly before we play
the last song and then talk some more about the next week we actually doubled up tonight on fruit
pastels oh we have yeah we've got two buckets of fruit pastels and four cans of i can't have two cans of
diet coke i'll never sleep save those for tomorrow yeah and then the fruit pastels are for your bag for
tomorrow they are i monday can be a difficult day for me yeah um because i i as we've discussed i work
in the it and um computers don't break like it's like it's like kettles they don't break when you
know kettles don't boil when you watch them yeah computers don't break when you watch them no so when
when we're all there watching them and when you arrive on the monday do you know what i mean yeah
you're like oh it's all gone broke oh and then so yeah there's always there's always a drama on a
monday so um and i often get like it's two o'clock in the afternoon yeah i wish i've got some fruit
pastels yes and you know what i've never got i've never got any fruit pastels and i'm too lazy to walk
to the shop yeah so i just like i don't know the thing i like about it is that we've actually
managed to get through the night tonight yeah without actually opening the second we'll have
to hide the cans in here won't we we will have to do something because we've got like your people
share this space and they'll steal our stuff yeah that's the way it is in the back of the cajon down
there the what the cajon oh yeah yeah i know what that is yeah we could do that in that yeah because
if i take them or behind you there's bongos we could put them in the bongos if i take these cans
home i shall drink them yeah that's the way it is it only i've got no willpower so i'll get
the minute the minute i have to deal with like some some stroppy tantrum from either my children
or people i would just something will go wrong somewhere and i would just be like oh and then
i think we should put them in the bongos yeah and then see if they arrive next week the thing is we'll
forget because we're so like you know we'll forget and then like in two years time we'll be like oh
there's cans of coke in here we should get sponsorship i think so if you want to sponsor us coke we're
totally down for that yeah just that we only need a few yeah we don't want any money either
yeah don't get any money just just send us like i know like i don't know like 30 cans i'll last us a
year yeah brilliant and round trees send us some fruit only the black only the black and red yeah
we don't want the other ones so if you do that yeah so we don't need money no all we need is is the
the goods no well if you send us any money rachel reeves will take it but american she's our chancellor
and she just she literally waits outside my house and takes my money as soon as i walk outside she
puts her hand in my pocket and takes my money from me gone and use i don't know what she does with it
no she's definitely not spending it on the roads no no i'd drive into burden upon trent today did you
i didn't it was full of potholes yeah yeah they're not doing that right are they didn't like that
staffordshire county council
other councils are available yeah um i think we're done for this one i'm just looking down
is there anything else i want to talk about i don't think there is um no i don't oh other albums
released in 1994 there were some big ones yeah it's a big year wasn't it 94 so we got garbage
garbage do one uh super unknown oh really stone temple pilots did purple yeah pearl jam did vitalogy
which we've done already we've not done super unknown have we no we haven't done super nine
i could do that yeah we haven't done any sound garden have we done sound no we haven't done sound
garden at all we've got to do that then don't we that'd be good yeah yeah we could definitely do that
um i like that that's like that's an album there are very few records where they don't get any
criticism no you're like faith no more yeah a couple like that and then do you know i mean but
there's albums yeah i don't know there aren't many that hold on where uh you you you yeah where
people have either got a positive opinion or no opinion yeah yeah yeah um and i think super
unknown is one of them yeah it's kind of one it's one of those you either love it no one no one's
calling it are they no one says it's a bad album no no i think you you you i mean there are i think
there are probably people that don't really get it yeah i mean it's not a particularly commercial
record no it's not full of like hooks or pop melodies or anything but it connects doesn't it
it's got this yeah it's got this very similar to like alice in chains for me in you know in that kind
of it's almost the way it makes you feel yeah rather than the way it yeah yeah sounds if that
makes sense that also gives it a timelessness as well for me yeah that's a really good point yeah
those those records they kind of transcend a little bit but it is it is it's like um and like for me
this is where there's a few bands i like there's like this is what makes slipknot good and bad
that when slipknot are on form then there's quite menacing it's like being in a horror movie
you kind of get this like i don't know like uneasy feeling you know the the album makes you feel a little
bit yeah you know i'm about to be murdered yeah yeah um and they're really good at slayer were really good
at that as well um i don't know but it is it's more about the way it makes you feel i remember listening
to hella weights from slayer for the first time i genuinely feeling like do you know i mean this is
i feel a bit i feel a bit freaked out yeah i feel a bit a bit unnerved by this yeah yeah yeah um
and and i think like i mean alice alice in chains always makes me feel quite sad yeah um
but but it but it is they make you feel these things you know like hair metal makes you feel
like happy makes you feel kind of bouncy and i want to go and you know it is there's definitely
a thing here where yeah you know the some of these albums like transcend you know like a van halen
record just makes you want to gives you that interesting thinking with you talking about this
with green day yeah nimrod yeah i had a moment yeah like that feeling you know the feeling that
you're talking about yeah that one i almost felt like that was my last album with them right like
after that yeah there was someone else's green day oh you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah the morning
came out and it's like oh it's not it's not really not green day anymore yeah i yeah like for me green
day was um mainly not even necessarily dookie yeah although there were a few songs on it yeah
um it was it was kaplunk it was insomniac it was yeah they were those those that sort of era green day
with yeah was the was the one that i really connected with and i remember having that feeling of going
i think this is my last one with you it's funny isn't it what a strange thing but it's the way it
makes you feel isn't it or it doesn't make you feel you know what i mean yeah it's one of the
greatest all-time albums i like american leo's really fallen but it's for leo it's for the kids
yeah yeah it's not it's not for me it's i do you know i'm the same i've really loved it i do you know
this week i've been listening to young blood uh young blood's idols yeah album um and it's a great
record i mean really yeah from a entertainment perspective it's a great record yeah really cool
really interesting um some really cool um your concepts on there really cool songwriting on there
um but it's not it's not yours no it's not it's not like it didn't make me feel anything
no yeah that makes sense and i don't mean that in like a rude way like it was you know but it didn't
connect with me i was able to see the value in it i guess i'm trying to think of the right the right
way to describe it but i i had it with um damien rice's oh yeah it was one of the last ones and that's
like that's getting on for 25 years surely now maybe more but that one that one was one for me
where that was my that was my album that i connected totally with that with that record
and there and there are a handful handful few more sins but it's just interesting the ones that you
that you almost i can't even it's almost like they
what's the word i'm trying to think of it's not like property but it's more like
they're a part they're a part of you they do the albums become a part of you yeah it sounds so cheesy
me saying that but that's what it feels like so it's it's i think for me it's that is that connection
but it's the connection of the memory of how it made you feel yeah and sometimes it's uh
just oh my god wow this thing yeah has blown me away yeah i mean the most recent for me with that
was probably gojira yes where i didn't know about gojira particularly um i heard bits here and there
and then sat down with one of their albums and was just like oh yeah and just like oh these you know
like there's a bunch of bands like tesseract as well yeah it's true actually tesseract i had a bit
with i had a bit with it i think you don't think you can really talk about very much now but brand
new when they did science fiction yeah yeah it was incredible and obviously you know yeah he he was a
very naughty boy yes but and and people don't connect with him anymore for that you know for the sort of
things he makes them feel different yeah yeah but um that record for me was another one that sort of
you know connected with and found a way into that but i think actually saying saying saying this
now and then working it through and thinking it through it was after that time yeah where there
was a blackened sky by biffy clio there was silver chairs diorama there was oh there was all the
pumpkin stuff then i put the guitar up and started writing right and i think i was like that time that's
the right so i've you know that stuff i've had that connection with yeah now i want to go i want to
make some stuff do my thing yeah yeah yeah it is it is funny how um yeah this this stuff
makes you feel stuff and it's interesting because you don't i don't know like like there's been very
few albums that have connected with me like in the way that i was as a teenager these albums had
a massive impact on me and they made me feel stuff yeah um whereas these days i generally just feel
tired do you know what i mean yeah my back hurts yeah i've been i've been doing diy this week yeah so
everything hurts yeah yeah and i i super glued myself to a step ladder
i saw a youtube clip about a bonding wood yeah and i was trying to glue some stuff to some other
stuff and i thought that's brilliant you put a bit of wood glue and a bit of super glue yeah and you
stick it yeah and the super glue kind of holds it and then the wood glue gives you a stronger bond
yeah youtube's brilliant yeah yeah yeah i did that right so i'm holding it with one hand yeah and
unbeknownst to me i'd got some super glue on my other hand yeah and i'm resting my other hand on
the step ladder yeah and i'm concentrating on the bit of wood yeah and i think yeah that's pretty good
yeah and then i remove that hand and i think i've nailed this and then i go to move and the step
ladder came with me
so you're no longer connecting with albums you're connecting with step ladders and so i had to get
some nail polish nail parnish remover and i'm like barney come help me and have a bath absolutely
laughing his socks off yeah what have you done you dickhead glued myself to the step ladders
there you go that's that but it but it's funny isn't it you don't i i i guess i genuinely feel
it's not like i don't appreciate new albums because i do i think there's been some really
great new records um but i don't i don't like a good example would be acdc power up yeah that was
brilliant yeah such a good album if i want to listen to acdc i'm gonna like a highway to hell yeah
black because of those there's a they make me feel a thing i remember a time or what do you know what i
mean and it's yeah people i think people can be really derogatory about it like kind of oh you just
only listen to old music and you're it isn't it's not like it's it's not like kind of gatekeeping or this
you know i don't i don't um i don't know like like kind of outrageously anti-new yeah yeah yeah
that's some amazing stuff loads of wicked stuff and it is amazing well i mean like i said the young book
records it's awesome it's really cool really really cool he's getting um a hard time in the press about
using auto-tune and stuff but and when and any and i'm sure you can hear it on the record but um
he's using it live and stuff as well yeah yeah it's making people a bit grumpy i mean you should all just
get over yourselves basically anyway he but it's great but it's not it doesn't mean anything i'm
sure there's a small army of people that it does mean something huge too and he is interesting he was
talking about how like early aussie and like suicidal tendencies and metallica and these they were bands
that mean stuff to him yeah yeah um and it's just i don't know it's fascinating is that you there are
points in your life where music does have a yeah bigger impact than others um yeah and i don't know
that there are yeah there are albums certainly some of the albums that we've covered that are i can't
imagine life without them you know i mean i just cannot imagine not being able to go and like pick up
the black album yeah yeah um you're all like master of puppets or ride the lightning yeah or you know
there are there are some of these albums that you you i just do you know i mean that i kind of think
that you know life without them yeah you just can't can't even imagine it really no no no so we're gonna do
next l7 l7 bricks are heavy yeah um do you know why i wanted to cover this next why um because
it's about well i'll say it's about the same time similar time in u.s history
um the production on this is dry as a bone yeah okay yeah punk rock yeah it was never really intended
to be a popular record um you know it has that like f you punk rock attitude which is brilliant
yeah um but i liked the difference between i think this is going to be quite good fun to kind of look
at these records back to do you know what i mean back to about one of them obviously recorded in london
but um yeah yeah very americanized um production standards and and song structure as well i mean it
was almost written for american rock right yeah yeah bricks are heavy totally not that at all you know
not it wasn't really written it wasn't intended to be you know have massive singles it wasn't intended to
be uh you know let's say huge obviously everybody wants their music to be big but but it it was it
there came from a punk rock yeah um yeah and uh uh perspective and i like the contrast um i listened
to it this afternoon actually and it's it's it just sounds really good yeah yeah so it kind of rips
your face off yeah yeah yeah it's got it's it's really cool really um yeah really really clever i think
in the way the way the way it's the way it's written and produced um but there's like a savage
energy to it um which i don't know i love stuff like this yeah i'm obsessed with the donnas at the
minute as well right yeah yeah donna stuff as well i love that that's properly do you know i mean it's
kind of simplistic and a rock and roll kind of just i don't know just real simplistic stuff uh and i don't
know i i mean definitely here for that i like um you know i i kind of quite like that era where
there was no auto tune really limited amount of kind of post processing and production um and it
was yeah it was tricking through the desk and on the table wasn't it yeah it's kind of it was as much
about your attitude and this kind of you know that the attitude kind of came out in the in the music
and i love that i do think this that this the the thing with 16 stone although it was kind of quite
heavily produced wasn't done to click i'd i'd i'd i'd be shocked if it was yeah i didn't i couldn't
find much to say whether it was or it wasn't but it it speeds up and slows down and it's like i i'm
pretty sure it wasn't done to to click and i think it um it it feels like it feels alive because of that
whereas that young blood album idols it's perfect i mean utterly perfect there is not a bit on that
album that is not perfectly placed perfectly produced yeah everything's exactly where it should be yeah
everything sound you know the drum sound your every hit is like triggered it sounds exquisite as you as
you listen to it um you know his voice sounds absolutely on it through every single part of it um
and that's fine for taylor swift yeah yeah but it isn't and not yeah and taylor swift's a great songwriter
right but that but that you know that that style of music i think benefits from that kind of yeah that
process perfect production and i don't think rock music does no and so i yeah i'd be quite cool i think
l7 bricks are heavy definitely is is way raucous it sounds quite good to me it sounds good it is
very raucous very um live sounding almost um and i don't know i'm here for that i like those records
yeah yeah i'm looking forward to doing um the donna's yeah does it spend the night i think it is
right right right 2001 right so we've got a little bit of time to wait do it next year yeah i love that
i really like that yeah yeah in fact i do that's what i could bend the rules for
i like the donna do you know what i like about donna's is that no one cared about them yeah i mean it's
like nobody was i think nick bryan produced them did he i think he's produced everybody nick bryan
i think he did do the dollars yeah
yeah there we go right you're gonna show is that it shall we yeah yeah done shall we let's what we'll
do is we'll we'll do this again next week yeah but about l7
shall we do that let's do it and we probably won't do it next week we've been a bit inconsistent
well i say it's all about you yeah so are you are you um no it's all right it was just these last
couple of weeks there was too many things in my diary i do it every now and then i put too many
things in i did it a bit today i've been in different places all day have you and like i don't know how
you do it yeah i can do one thing a day yeah that's it no i do loads but it got to a point where
the last couple of weeks yeah well i was like oh there's no space there's actually no space anyway
to do anything can't do anything yeah so so next week in the weeks a bit like that but i think the
weekend's clearer do you not get scared i get scared i think like if i've got like if i do two things
in the day yeah i think what if i start the first thing and i get really stuck into it yeah and then i
can't stop it to do the second thing what do i do yeah i can't do i can't i just can't cope with
that yeah so i end up typically doing one one thing a day there's something really broken in
my brain but that's how i think about the the days normally yeah one thing's a bit bit much i can do
two two things no i've got this sort of thing where it's like oh there's four seconds there
yeah i can do that i don't know how do you switch your brain like like my i like i'm still like
tomorrow morning yeah i'll still be thinking about 16 stone yeah and it will take me a day to kind
of actually we've moved on now to bricks are heavy i need to yeah i think you need to move on i think
it takes me like it's so like that context switching that switching of what you're focusing on
it like it's quite for me it's quite a slow moving machine yeah i mean it takes me a day or two to kind of
get into it yeah but then once i'm into it that's it i'm there and i can't just i'm really envious of
people that can just yeah do you know i mean just switch and yeah focus on something else yeah i can't
do that oh i can yeah can you yeah apparently that's what makes good ceos does it yeah good ceos can
can can just switch yeah from one topic to another yeah but it feels a bit like being
electrocuted for me it's like if somebody forgot i work sometimes you get dragged if you get dragged
if i'm focusing on one thing and then another thing is on fire yeah and you suddenly get dragged into that
thing yeah and then you know you that ramp up yeah it has to be quite fast yeah i think it's because
of teaching oh yeah i think it's because of teaching because you can't you can't dwell you
have to you have to just switch you're currently doing yeah and that's like within the within the
space of a lesson yeah you've got to do five things i i i find it really like most of my best ideas come
to me like a day or two after i've started yeah yeah dwell on the problem and you kind of start to
think and you know you'll be other things going on and then and then you just start to get a
question well what is post grunge yeah what's that all yeah do you know i mean it's that kind
of stuff and then and then you kind of go down the rabbit hole of it but it doesn't even occur to me
for like a day yeah yeah and then even oh that's interesting and these things i think a lot of the
ideas for me are subconscious like they kind of like just pop into your brain and when you're doing
something else but and i think that's why i find um context i can do other jobs it's not like i can't do
no but i can't i can only i can only focus like i can only really truly think about
one thing at a time can't do can't do more than that no that's fair enough isn't it
should we go see ya