We'll be right back.
No, I do.
I do.
Of all the people I know, it's like, who's got a hot water bottle?
It would be you.
It's not a hot water bottle.
What is it?
It's just going to make you laugh.
So I've got a bit man flu, so I'm a bit like griff gritty.
You are gruff.
So it's called a warm worm.
And it's like a leg.
Really?
It's like long.
It's like a metre long.
And it's like that thick.
And you fill it up with hot water.
Yeah.
And then you...
You could like cuddle it.
Yeah.
So then I call a hot water bottle.
Like a massive warm appendage.
Yeah, you can only get like a hot water bottle gets you warm in one bit, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you get a whole metre of warmth.
Yeah, I get really cold feet.
Yeah.
Because I'm a 70-year-old woman.
And so what I do is I have my warm worm and I fill it with boiling.
It's a disease.
You know, the big warning.
Don't do boiling.
Do not use...
Because I put boiling water in it.
Yeah.
And then what I do is I put it like down near my feet.
And then as my feet warm, then I slowly kind of move it about a little bit.
But that's what I've not used it yet, but I'm a bit close.
Is that like when you're officially kind of like, right, it's now autumn?
Yeah, it's when my feet hurt.
Yeah.
You know when I get into bed and I'm like, oh, my feet hurt.
So I go and get my warm worm.
And then the whole family laugh.
That's circulation, isn't it?
Yeah.
What's wrong with your circulation?
Why is your circulation like that?
Rubbish.
I think it's because I've spent 50 years sitting on my arse.
I do do running and things, so I'm not like terrible.
And I'm more like, you know, I'm quite capable.
But I find when I get into bed, I get really cold.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I don't like that.
But I am like a cat.
I'm just like a cat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you have your warm worm.
Yeah.
I just, I don't, yeah.
I don't like dogs.
I don't like other people.
There's another confession.
Yeah.
Which is that I took your laminator virginity tonight, didn't I?
We've, yeah, my little boy has got a homework.
And now that this is, so he's got to give his homework in tomorrow.
It's Monday.
So what time did you receive this?
I was just heading out of the house to see you.
And he went, oh, have we got a laminator?
I go, what?
Oh, have we got a laminator in the garage?
He goes, no, we haven't.
Well, I need to laminate this.
Can you get it laminated?
I can find it's like eight o'clock on a Sunday.
I mean, what?
And then I messaged you and I said, have you got a laminator?
And you went, yeah.
So we laminated something.
We did.
We laminated something.
It's dead good.
It's interesting, isn't it, lamination?
It's dead good.
Yeah, yeah.
I feel that you're laminating everything now.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
I want to go and laminate everything.
If you need anything laminating, send it in and we'll do it.
We should point out that we're Rufology.
Rufology.
We are Rufology.
And we are.
Four minutes.
Four minutes in.
We're Rufology.
I'm Neil.
Yes, I'm Chris.
And welcome.
Welcome.
This week.
We're doing another Maynard.
Maynard.
James Keenan.
He says Maynard.
Maynard.
Maynard James.
That's what he says.
Okay, Maynard.
We say Maynard.
I'd say Maynard.
Maynard.
I wouldn't even think of going Maynard.
Maynard.
And yeah, so we're doing Undertow.
Yeah.
Because we had a fight last week, didn't we?
About which one we're going to do.
Yeah, it was hard.
And then you won.
Well, we tossed some keys, didn't we?
Yeah, that's the way we fight.
And the thing is, my favourite tour record is Lateralist.
Yeah.
But that's 2001.
That's illegal.
And our albums have to be 25 years old.
And we're not there yet.
Next year?
We'll come back and do it.
Yeah, next year we could do Lateralist.
Because it's interesting.
I think it's an interesting check.
Because although, like, I mean, tall to tall.
Yeah.
But what I will say is that they, there was definitely a change.
Because I messaged you in this week, because I messaged you in this week, and I said, this isn't as weird as I remember it.
yes that's true they did get more weird yeah um so so um even though they did get a piano and
smash it and then shoot it with shotguns yeah well so i was just trying to think the lineup
changed didn't it so this one the bassist was um uh demore wasn't it and then that changed to
uh justin chancellor yeah i think and then but it's weird it's like the
the the band that so last week we did perfect circle and that was later we did med and arms that
was that was like later that was the back end of the 90s yeah so we're back in like 93 now this is 93
yeah that like it's interesting when you get up to 2001 for lateralist tool tool sound to me like a
much more competent band and that's not to say this doesn't no sound competent but they
they just seem to get like like better sharper and it's it's it feels to me like they like here
they're experimenting and they're doing some really cool stuff and they're doing stuff with like
soundscape isn't it yeah this is soundscape as they move on it turns into like music maths a little bit
it does but you can't so like there are bits in here where i think oh that sounds weird yeah yeah
time signature bits yeah but you're like you're not like i don't know it doesn't feel it doesn't
feel like wrong no or anything no no no it feels like well that feels a little bit weird yeah by the
time you get to lateralist it it doesn't feel weird no it is weird yes you know the time signature is
weird but it doesn't sound it so unless it's tall unless somebody tells you yeah that's a weird time
signature yeah yeah lots of people would just be like i don't i don't get it it's just it's just
it's just all like that yeah okay i get i get that it you know i get that it's not acdc yeah
yeah but it's just like proggy yeah weird proggy stuff right it doesn't sound weird whereas here
there are bits and where the times like it's oh that feels a bit not jarring is the wrong word for it but
it's like it feels like by the time they get to lateralist they're able to muck about with these
weird time signatures and do odd stuff yes yeah and make it sound like a a single yeah yeah yeah it's like
oh you know i think they're experimenting and trying to figure out where they are
yeah um but i think the thing that makes this special the reason i'm quite pleased that we did
this is that like 1993 yeah like like it was it was the back end of nirvana was it so yeah so so
you've just gone through um yeah so you've just gone through nirvana yeah and you're kind of in this
like post grunge yeah yeah world you're in like so alt rock was like pearl jam and stuff kind of
getting big but like heavy music chaos ad yes came out carcass heart work morbid angel did covenant
yeah um death did individual thought patterns typo negative nirvana did in utero yeah um
um siamese dream yeah uh and anthrax did sound of white noise which you know because they're all of
those a thick big thick thick chunky yeah yeah yeah stuff and this is this is quite thin sounding
isn't it in comparison but the other thing about this is this like proggy yeah right now proggy music
in 93 yeah was widly guitars yeah it was dream theater it was that long yeah it was like
all that and then you had if you had a drum kit you had like a million drums yes so it was always like
and that was proggy right yeah but then tour came along and and and with this they were soundscapey
yeah the the songs were proggy not because of like virtuoso yeah but because the the structure of the
song was bonkers yeah yeah and it's riffy yeah but it's but it's not like acdc no no no no it's got
this kind of like uh i don't know it's like driving isn't it it's kind of it's like you know
like i love watching you play when when you play you you're you're it's like your whole body will
play and you kind of ebb and flow with the song right and it's like that it's this it's not even
the bits that are like staccato yeah in in undertow it still still flows yeah yeah i know it sounds
weird what you're saying but i know exactly what you mean it doesn't stop and start does it it's not
like um i'm trying to like periphery or yeah yeah yeah you know these bands that they're a bit like
being like uh i don't know i've been punched in the face it's kind of like yeah yeah it's not that
genti kind of thing it's no it's not the genti no it's a liquid it's like it feels like it's flowing
yeah it's not jagged at all is it no there's no part of this is jagged it's fuzzy it's like a warm
worm that's what this is that's the right word for it it's kind of fuzzy it's you know we did
mere de noms last week and it's got that's layer on layer on layer that's like this kind of um um
you know like you know those french cakes what do they call them french fancies no not french fancy
angel cake no but they're french but you know they do these things and they're called like they're
they're like every other country than france they're like they're like layers thin tiny thin
wafer thin layers wafer thin layers but there's like 100 like like 30 wafer thin layers i've never
had this what you're talking about somebody's gonna write in and say it's a thing right yeah yeah
mere de noms like that yeah it's these wafer thin layers yeah of things and when you bite into it
all together it's like oh that's amazing yeah yeah right this this is no marble cake no layers of like
layers of rock eventually you'll need to go for a wee in a bit and i'll look it up
um it begins with m yeah i've seen it on a pretentious cooking show
um but this isn't this is like it's weird to me this like this so undertow it doesn't it it feels
less less layer-y less stuff but it's still very madeira no no where's madeira's from portugal
oh is it i'm saying every other country um but anyway this this this i don't know how i don't
know quite how how many um like tracks this was recorded over but it doesn't feel quite it's quite
live isn't it it's like it's like the four guys in the room playing together yeah yeah uh yeah i think
that's what that separates the the those two records for me so murder noms feels like this kind of
exquisite layer after layer after layer this feels like a live performance it's got this yeah yeah
it's got this yeah melt meal foie meal foie is it mel foie yeah is that what it said yeah yeah
meal i've never heard of that in my life well you're from from from south derbyshire oh it's that sort
of cake you see what i mean the layer wafer thin yeah yeah yeah like this that's it yeah imagine each
one of those is a track yeah chris yes just show me a picture of a cake yeah meal foil or whatever
they will be like one one of at least one of our listeners will be from france just like or canada
and speak french they speak very good french yeah they they will be unimpressed with this bit yeah
me fui
do you know like well half of our listeners will be googling what what how do you spell that
hang on oh i i'm on google so i can pronounce it what was it m e i l l e four oh foie foie meal foie meal foie meal foie or meal foie yeah or meal free oh i like meal foie the best whatever but oh do you know what it means
oh this is this actually does it mean i know we tangent is layered cake no no even better it goes
back into exactly what you're talking about listen to this oh go on it translates to
thousand sheets or thousand leaves oh so it's like it's like layers of leaves yeah
maynard will be listening to this going dickhead comparing my album to a cake
but i did sorry about that dude uh but but it but it is it feels
you know uh uh medinoms had got this like exquisite layering going on yeah yeah this feels like a live
record it feels like this is kind of um you know like you say it's got that delicate kind of soundscape
to it there's space in there yeah um there's like there's interesting it has got it's still got that
tall rhythmic i know we're talking about yeah it's got the tight it's still got the tight rhythmic stuff
tightly miked vocals as well yes yeah so they're full yeah there's not loads of reverbs it's quite dry
tightly yeah that's the tall sound the guitars are tight i'm blurting loads tonight sorry
it is that's tool yeah tool is bone like mostly bone dry there's not loads of effects and reverbs but
at the time this is a big old rock if you know as i'm reading down these albums uh uh sepultura's
chaos ad yeah the drum sound in there is really big and yeah yeah kind of roomy and and stuff right
and carcasses heart work that's got you know they're big sounding records yeah yeah yeah and this is
tight with his tie isn't it this is quite quite dry yeah it's kind of like hardcorey in tonality
yeah it's kind of got this um but i think that's kind of what gives this record its tone because it's
got a menacing tone to it although it's kind of quite it's not jaggedy like slipknot um but like it's
it's got a tone to it like it's got like this kind of hardcore yeah tone to that kind of dry you know
when they're like i'm punk when they dry it right up and it's kind of got this do you know what i mean
it sounds quite nasty sounding yeah it's just not quite that dry but it's yeah it's not it's not kind of
full of reverb and no no it's got a it's got an interesting sound to it i think i mean
produced of course by sylvia massey yeah um and it's not very often i have to just point this out
it's not very often we say a female name when we're talking about production because it feels like a very
male dominated world to me production and mixing and all that yeah i think you're right i think metal
is do you remember we we had a radio show and we were being tasked to play more female
music yeah um and it occurred to me when when we were getting there i mean there are some really
big female names in metal it's not like there aren't any but they're massively outnumbered yeah
you know there's this there's significantly more is this quite a male dominated thing i don't know
whether that's you know just there are more more blokes like metal or whether it's just you know
music in general is yeah yeah he's biased that way but you dead right and especially production
yeah it's incredibly rare to to get that but she's done some like i mean her list is it's unbelievable
bonkers unbelievable this was her first breakthrough yeah right so 1993 undertow this was the first one
she did their ep as well so they did an ep called opiate before this i think there was an ep before
that okay yeah yeah and i can't bloody remember it's on set of numbers like 262 blah blah blah blah
do you know what let me i'll look in a bit there is there is oh no hang on i did put in a tag hang on
uh yeah 72826 it was released on cassette by toolshed music in 1991 so that suggests it's toolshed music
is probably their own yeah they just got a load of tapes copied yeah then the rest went out on zoo
yeah yeah yeah um but i wanted to look so sylvia massey um if i look at her um because you were saying
before that her like the iconic desk of the sound city sound yeah that's her desk yeah yeah yeah i
didn't i i don't know whether uh because in the in the documentary from um you man dave growl who i
don't know whether we're allowed to like anymore but he's i think it's pretty cool so he he does that
and all of the desk all of a lot of that hardware was hers yeah yeah yeah um let me go i'm just going
to go through some of the stuff right that she did so um so she did a bunch of stuff back from she
started in 1984 where she was an assistant engineer then a co-producer in 86 for um for sea hags uh then
she did a whole bunch of stuff in um so she did femme fatale she did joe satrian is surfing with the
aliens it's incredible isn't it um exodus pleasures of the flesh in 87 um and then as i look through here
she had oh some of the biggest stuff more fun stuff so shake your money maker in 90 yeah that's yeah
but she's assistant engineer yeah so she's an assistant engineer yeah yeah yeah and then um
there's a couple of here where she's done some mixing so she she mixed a seal um track and then
as i'm looking down her list i think this uh for 93 opiate is the production yeah she's the that's the
first proper one that she's the uh producer for but then as you go through that list so she did divine
intervention in 95 yeah slayer slayer yeah uh skunk and nancy paranoid and sunburnt in 95 great records
um she did tom petty and the heartbreakers rem's road movie in 96 um deftones uh can't even breathe
single in 97 um then she did pavements uh she was co-producer on that one but then there's like
rage against the machine oh this is for the tibetan freedom concert she kind of engineered
all of all of that kind of stuff smashing pumpkins um uh credits for for various singles and she's just
tons like system of a down marmalade um seven dust singles it's just mad yeah yeah just been around
been involved been present got stuff done yeah she was yeah i mean still is i mean she's still got
credits up to 2023 yeah and i think the interesting thing about her approach to production is from what
i've been listening through this this stuff these interviews and and reading about it it's more about
getting the band in like a really creative place yeah and it's not just about recording music and tracking
music is actually about kind of getting the band in a particular state um i think that during the
recording of undertow we were discussing how to make the world's most obnoxious sound and uh i threw out
some ideas of getting an old piano getting getting a piano and lifting it up to the top of a
building with a crane and then dropping it and recording that and that should be a really
obnoxious sound uh so i went about trying to find a crane company that would do it for for us i knew
where to get the pianos these pianos the the uh they're relics that can't be repaired they're totaled
basically uh so many of these old pianos can't be repaired so you can get them for you know uh just
fifty dollars or such so um but i couldn't get a crane company to to actually do this lifting and
dropping so i i bought two two uh pianos we pushed them into the the dock at the back of uh grandmaster's
studio and um and we just set out to make the most obnoxious noise ever and whatever would happen with
it we we were going to use it or not use it i don't know we we didn't know what it would be like
um i uh wanted them to be performing while they were smashing it i provided everybody with uh sledge
hammers pickaxes and um there was something else everyone had safety glasses and yeah it was exciting
and then danny brought his sawed off shotgun so shooting holes into the piano uh there were two pianos and
and uh and uh yeah they were destroyed it was spent a whole a whole afternoon having fun doing that and
uh and there is some footage out there of that that whole day that was super fun and then amazingly uh
we were able to to sequence that into what is disgustipated on the end of the record and maynard
uh performed a uh speaking part over it and uh uh the sequencing was done we took all the sounds and i
and and i did little samples of different sounds and sent them over to my friend um eric anist
uh his name is uh his stage name is static and um he put together this performance piece
that was on the end of the undertow record i think it came out great it's super weird though i mean it's
like you know it's like the angel of the war came out of the gate snatching me up from my place of slumber
and took me on high and higher still until we moved through the spaces between the air itself
and he bumped into a vast farmland of our old midwest
and as we descended cries of impending doom rose from the soil
one thousand nay a million voices full of fear and terror possessed me then and i begged angel of
the lord what are these tortured screens and the angel said unto me these are the cries of the carrots
the cries of the carrots you see reverend maynard tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust
it's a spring for my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers
and roared hear me now i have seen the light they have a consciousness they have the life they have
the soul damn you let the rabbits wear glasses save our brother's gonna get an amen
can i can i get a hallelujah
this is
is
this is
this
this is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
this
is
amazing
is
it's
about
not
remotely musical
no
but he's about
the performance of this getting the artist in the right space
yeah to produce their best stuff
yeah you know it's not like
um you know your bob rocks
yeah
um who
you know were um meticulous about about getting the thing perfect and it down right or not lang even
this kind of you know you've got to play a million times until it's perfect
yeah he he you know um rick rubin was far more about like you know it's it's uh what was that he's got that brilliant quote hasn't he about you know the the best take is the one where you are almost out of control you only just managed to get it done that's the take that we want kind of thing that we want kind of thing.
that's the take that we that we want kind of thing and it was it was about this um it was about the art it was about you know it's not about it being you've just summarized it perfectly it's not about the being to click it's not about being perfect to the computer saying oh that was but yeah on you know it was it was about this um expressive nature of getting getting it out and and the and the art of you know the song so yeah yeah as soon as i saw that those two were connected
connected yeah yeah that's it yeah that is yeah she's come from the school of rick rubin effectively or at least kind of they were in the same space yeah i'm exploring the same yeah exactly i think that i think that he and her just were like you say on the same wavelength yeah and that rick you know rick rick was never going to work with death leopard he's never going to be able to figure that out yeah um
um but bands like tall it was able to you know get behind this um this the expression that they
were trying to pull through but but without getting into the you know the the deep the
technical details yeah of that getting them into a space but the thing i hadn't realized and and it
really connected a lot of dots for me with this record is the fact that she did try to do a lot
of it live yeah a lot of it was kind of stand up and done in a live space yeah yeah get the band
feeling right then hit the button yeah whereas you know we we talked about murder noms last week
for me that was not no like if pad's just playing all those violins yeah yeah she ain't gonna do that
live in one take you know that's multi-layer that's have like 12 violins on an arm but it but it's
interesting isn't it it's still they've like we talked about last week there is uh this similarity
there's a tonality where you think oh actually that there is definitely a um you can tell they're kind
cousins yes do you know i mean yeah and i think some of it's that tightly miked yeah
maynard's vocals um but but there is definitely something that connects
where like mad and noms wasn't and and this came from yes yeah even though the the production almost
like the dna the dna of the sound is different yeah and you know and this this this has got
quite a live punchy sound to it um you know it sounds it's interesting this this has got almost
like a um like a demo yeah feel to it you know what i mean it's not that it's like roughly recorded
but it doesn't sound like super polished no but you have to bear in mind like like hysteria was done
in 87 which sounded like perfect brian adams was banging stuff out you had like um what adrenalized
from deaf leper came out in 92 yeah those records sound like exquisite you go back and they're perfect
yeah there's nothing on them that's a little bit jaggedy or or whatever whereas this has got this has
got like a um a word it's like a i don't know what the word is it's like a it's raw yeah it sounds
analog yeah it's got this kind of analog sound to it where you know if you i i i mean this may have
been done to click but i don't think it was no it doesn't feel like it was done i don't know how you
would you know the bits where it kind of the timing changes yeah yeah i don't know whether they just do
that yeah there's no way it's it's they're playing together aren't they yeah they're playing together
and they're really tight you can imagine you can imagine you can imagine somebody with a metronome
just just suddenly ramping up going uh but yeah i i it's it's got a cool like uh organic is the word
i'm looking for yeah yeah yeah it's it you know what i mean it doesn't doesn't feel like there's a
computer here yeah you know keeping everybody in time kind of thing you kind of like you say you
kind of get get this feeling like it it evolved that the the track and the song has evolved and
the timing changes and the structure changes nobody likes to be put in a
in a pigeonhole of sorts you know but i guess we are kind of kind of metal kind of grunge kind of
dry a heap slash grateful dead vibe a little bit of steve martin banjo music slipped in there
so
there's a
there's a shadow just behind me
shouting every step i take
making every promise empty
pointing every finger at me
waiting like a stalking butler who upon the finger rest
murder now the path of my sweet just because the sun has come
jesus wants to fucking wrestle something but the path of done
why can't we drink forever
i just want to stop this forever
why can't we drink forever
i just want to stop this forever
i am just a worthless lawyer
i am just an imbecile
i will not complicate you
trust in me and fall as well
i will find a center in your life
i will chew it up and leave
i will work to elevate you
just enough to bring it down
mother mary won't you whisper
something but the path of done
mother mary won't you whisper
something but the path of done
mother mary won't you whisper in your life?
mother mary won't you forget?
mother mary won't you whisper in your life?
he didn't read it how many volumes his bit from his whole album?
that's how to solve it
i think so
i think it's like the um uh
oh god what was the uh
we're going to get down this
in my head i know what this is
and i can't the words aren't coming to me
um uh the uh
oh what's his name um
right this is going to be quite hard
yeah
he he was in um
top gun
right
who was the man in top gun?
tom cruise
yeah
end of the world movie
oh yeah yeah war of the worlds
war of the worlds
yeah
um
that
don't they dive of the cold?
yes
could have shortcutted that
yeah
just Henry Rollins
just played him Henry Rollins
bit on bottom
I love you.
But I feel like I'm the part that you've made me lose.
Killed.
And threatened.
Weakness.
It makes me feel ugly.
I'm on my knees and burn in my pants and mose on.
You lift.
Set my head off.
I'm dead.
I'm sorry.
She lives up, she lives up, she lives up She lives up, she lives up, she lives up in the bottle
Thank you.
If I let you, you would make me destroy myself.
In order to survive you, I must first survive myself.
And I can sink no further.
And I cannot forgive you.
There's no choice but to confront you.
To engage you.
To erase you.
I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain.
I've used my mistakes against you.
There's no other choice.
I'm shameless now.
I'm meaningless now.
I'm willing now.
I'm knowing now.
But my soul must be iron.
And my fear is naked.
Naked and fearless.
And my fear is naked.
Dead.
Dead inside.
Nameless now.
Shade lost now.
Nothing now.
No one, no
And you save me
Naked, no
Fearless, no
Naked, no
Fearless, no
Dead inside
Hater gives me alive
Happiness gives me alive
Weakness gives me alive
Can't keep me alive
It's better
Weakness gives me alive
The other interesting thing with this
Is like we're going back to these
You know these kind of early 90s and stuff
I was talking to somebody
I had to go to Scotland for work
We're going to talk about that in a minute as well
Because that was bonkers
I enjoyed that a lot
But so I was talking to somebody
Much much younger
Like in early 30s
And we were talking about
You know albums and blah blah blah blah blah
And I was saying that we were going to do Undertow this week
And she was like oh yeah
You know it's a cool record
I'm not a big tool fan
But I kind of know of that record kind of thing
And she says there's a lot of nostalgia back for the
You know for the 90s and the internet
And all of that
Yeah yeah yeah
I was like 93
The internet didn't exist
No
We didn't have the internet
Yes
In 93
Yeah yeah yeah
Like not even
I mean I was at the cutting edge
Of that world
We
Like maybe
You didn't have the World Wide Web
But we had dial up internet
You had
Yeah yeah
BBSs and stuff
But you know
You weren't like on Google
No
No no no no no no
You weren't
You certainly weren't getting music
It was Alta Vista first anyway wasn't it
Yeah yeah
You weren't getting music from it at all
MP3
I might be wrong
I don't think MP3s
Wasn't a thing no
That was kind of a lot later
Like lame
Yeah yeah yeah
And stuff didn't really come through
Until about 95
I don't think
Maybe
Maybe a bit before
But you know
It was a different
Completely different world
Yeah yeah yeah
This was tapes
Tape trading
Yeah yeah
It was
You know
You were copying stuff onto tape
Yeah
You had your Walkman
But it was fascinating
It was really interesting
Yeah yeah yeah
To have that conversation with somebody
Yes
That wasn't there
Didn't see it
Yeah yeah yeah
Almost like couldn't imagine a world
Where the internet wasn't
Yeah yeah yeah
Do you know what I mean
And it was
Well I was even thinking about
You know
Before we've recorded tonight
We were downstairs here
At the library
In the studio
And you were talking about
Some of the stuff
That you've managed to pull together
This week using AI
Oh god yeah yeah
And like meetings
And you know
Annotating stuff
And you just think
One day that's going to be
Like at the minute
It's blowing our minds
Yeah yeah
It's totally blowing our minds
The fact that
You know I had a meeting tonight
Yeah
I didn't even have to write anything down
It summarised it all
And then it sent everyone the message
With the summary of the meetings
But it's like
We do like for the
For the description for the show
Yeah
I just take
We get the transcript
So we do
We record the show
We do the transcript
And I just dump it into
ChatGPT
And say just
Summarise this
Summarise this waffle
And it comes back
And I go
Oh that was interesting
And it reminds me
And then I kind of
Sketch it together
But yeah
It was
I think it's
Easy to forget
Yeah yeah yeah
The world
In which this album
Came out
Yes
Into
You know
It was
Like a
Radically different world
I want to talk a little bit
About the
Edinburgh Mile
Yes
Okay yeah
Because I walked on it
This week
So I
We live in the Midlands
And I went to Scotland
That's
For
For Americans
As you're looking at this
Like because my
My mate was with me
And
It was like
I've got a lot of Americans listening
Yeah
Hello Americans
Hello America
Definitely
Good
Anyway
So
Most of my
US colleagues
Flew into
Heathrow
Yeah
They dossed about
In London
For a few days
And then
They got on
A train
Yeah
And went up to Scotland
Yeah yeah yeah
Which is great
And they're like
Why does it take
Like seven hours
Yeah
The slow train
That kind of
Meanders up there
And they're like
You're in
In the US
I could get from
One end of the country
To the other
Really easily
And on the map
When you look on the map
Yeah
Like London to Scotland
It's not very far
Yes
Like you could put
Your finger over that
Yeah
Not very big
Yeah
So A
They had to deal with that
Kind of whole
Why does it take so long
To get everywhere
Yeah
Which was good fun
And then
We all walked up
The Edinburgh
Our hotel was
Like one end of that
And the
Meeting
The meeting space
Was at the other
And
I've never seen
Anything quite like it
Imagine
Anything
Yeah
Absolutely anything
If you
Let's say you wanted to buy
Like a stuffed doll
Of Elvis
On a sheet
With a sword
Yeah
Right
They will sell it
On the edge of a mile
They will sell it
Yeah
But
And there's a big but
Yeah
It will say Scotland on it
Yeah
So if you want anything
You know like an alien
Like having sex
With a piano
Yeah
As long as it says
Scotland on it
Yeah
It's there
You'll find it down there
Yeah
Anything you can imagine
Yeah
Scotland on it
Edinburgh mile
Yeah
Wow
It's a bonkers place
Yeah
I loved it
It was great
I kind of got
You know when you get
A bit carried away
Yeah
I went in all of the
Like the shops
Did you buy vinyl
I didn't
I didn't have time
There was a lovely
Vinyl shop actually
And I did
I did kind of poke my head
In the window
But it was closed
When I was there
So I went to Dubwreck
The other night
Which is in Derby
Oh yeah
It's cool there
Yeah yeah
And Jay's done a really
Good job there
And he's
And they've just opened
A new bit
Which is a shop
Oh
And it sells
Kind of new
Or pre-owned vinyl
Has he got a copy
Of the 2017
Re-release
Of Superstar College
I looked
Did you
I looked for you
I thought
Oh you know
I might
Happenstance
You know
I might chance upon it
And no I didn't
It wasn't in there
But I did
I've
I've never
This is right
So I've never
Been in a record shop
Yeah
And just flicked
Through the records
I loved that
Like I used to do
With CDs
Yeah
But I was too young
To do the vinyl thing
Where it was all vinyls
That was school
I went through
Every single one
The whole rack
You can't help
But lift them up
As well
Yeah yeah yeah
You can't help
Like you've seen
The album cover
A million times
Yeah
And you'll get to some
And I still lift it out
Yeah yeah
And I still lift it out
And I still flip it around
And I still read the back
And I still
Yeah
I've got a copy
I've got it
I don't need to lift it up
I better still do it
I still pick it up
And look at it
It was beautiful
I was so relaxed
I was so just
I could just do this for hours
Like just looking through these
And not even intend to buy it
Just let them flick through
Just looking
See what I've got
It's so nice
And then you pick
And it's in the album art
Really nice and big
Yeah
And they were in nice wallets
And there was one that
I can't remember
What it was now
I said oh I'll have to get that
For Neil
Yeah
Is that like 20 quid
Yeah
And then I thought
Oh no I might already have it
Or one of those sort of things
20 quid's about right for me
Yeah
20 quid is about right
And I normally do like
One a month
Yes
I kind of go
Yeah yeah yeah
But I've
I've taken
I bought
When I kind of got back
Into vinyls a few years ago
I bought some of the re-releases
Yeah
And I've gone off it a bit
Yeah yeah yeah yeah
And I much prefer now
Getting the originals
Yeah
Do you know what I mean
Yeah
It's weak
Like some of them
Like that
Superstar car wash
Yeah
Stupid money
Yeah yeah yeah
There are others as well
That I just think are bonkers
Like so like
The
I bought
Ride the
I bought the
An original copy
Of Ride the Lightning
It cost me like 22 quid
Or whatever
Yeah
Now they're like 100 quid
Yeah yeah yeah
For these original copies
Rain in Blood
I've got two copies of
I bought two copies of Raining Blood
I bought the first one
I think cost me like 25 quid
And it was
But it's missing
What I really wanted
Inside
It's like the Def Jam
Yes
You've got this like
Inner sleeve
Yeah yeah yeah
It's like a red
Like it's like red text
And a white thing
And that
But that's what I kind of
Really wanted
That I remember
Yeah yeah yeah
And I kind of wanted
The first copy I bought
Didn't have it
And I was too
I didn't look
You know when you pick it up
I picked it up
It didn't look
And then
And then bought another copy
I paid a bit more
For like 35 quid or whatever
They're over 100 quid now
Yeah yeah yeah
And like 100 quid
I just don't
I'm not paying 100 quid for them
No no
So
But you get massive bargains
Like I bought
I really like
God properly off topic now
But I really like
There's a guy called
Tuck Smith
He's in a band called
The Biters
He's in a band now
Called Tuck Smith
And The Wrestler's Hearts
So a proper
You know
Like floor stampy
Rock and roll
Yeah yeah yeah
I think it's really
Really cool
And there
I bought
Earache
Did their first two albums
For 8 quid
Yeah
So I got two
Two records
For 8 quid
Yeah
The postage cost me more
Than the records
Pretty much
And I don't know
There's something
Really lovely about
I'd sit down
In my record collection
And you'd just
Thumb your way through them
Yeah it's nice
And you'd just
Oh yeah I fancy
Because I never
Because it was always
Like I suppose
When this album came out
It was either cassette
Or CD
Wasn't it
Mostly CD
Yeah yeah
For me this was
Like a lot of these
I'm going to refer to it
As like extreme
Yeah
I don't mean it like that
I don't mean it
It wasn't like
You know
Bolt thrower and stuff
It wasn't like
Kind of super fast
But it was
You know
You weren't
This wasn't Pearl Jam
No exactly
You weren't in like
You know
Selling millions of copies
These would have come out
On cassette
Yeah
And you'd have bought it
On cassette
Yeah
Or yeah
Or you may have had it
On CD
Yeah you might have had it
On CD
Yeah
Or you'd have recorded it
Off CD
Yeah
But yeah
It was
It would have been
Like probably those
Later 80s ones
Would have been on vinyl
Yeah
But then there was
That big crossover
Like I would have been
At college from
Like 90
89, 90, 91, 92
Yeah yeah yeah
I don't think I listened
To anything other than cassettes
No no
No well I just remember
My dad having vinyls
And they were in the
This little cubby hole
Thing under the stairs
Yeah
There was a rack of vinyl
In there that my dad had
And it was like
Had a few things
But that was always
The old music
Old music
Yeah yeah
That was
That wasn't
You know
That wasn't like
Stuff that I was
Interested in listening to
That was old music
And it's just so interesting
That now that old music
Is you know
Collector item
Or you know
That sort of thing
But do you know
I don't know what I was
Saying to you
That I saw a guy
Down the road
Had what looked like
An original copy
Of Dark Side of the Moon
Like an original
Original pressing
Like a four
Five hundred
Quid pressing
Sorry
It was a Freud
Pink Freud
Oh Pink Freud
Dark Side of your mum
I messaged this guy
And I was like
Can you
Because he had a picture
Of the run out
On side A
Yes
Which is really well known
Right
This is like
This is a record
That's worth a fortune
Yeah
And like you don't
I don't know
Like you don't
Come across them
Do you know what I mean
Like everybody knows
About these things
And I messaged this dude
And I was going like
I think you told me
This story before
I said is this really
He said yeah yeah
It's a
I think it's quite an early copy
Yeah
And he got it listed
For twenty quid
Yeah yeah yeah
And I was like
It's like ten miles away
And I was like
I said I'm going to
Can I come
He got a load of other records
They got like some
Wasp records and stuff
He was like
Can I come and have a look
And he's like
Well yeah you can do
If you want to
I said can you send me
A copy of like
The side two run out
Yeah
And then he deleted
All the pictures
Oh
You know I mean
At this point
Like scam
Yeah this feels a bit weird
Yeah
I don't know
Like scamming me out
Of twenty quid
Yeah yeah yeah
Do you know what I mean
It just feels a bit
Dickhead
There are some bad people
There are
Bad bad people
Of all the people
Like sad people
That collect vinyls
Yeah
Do you know what I mean
Yeah yeah
Go and scam somebody
Called Josh
Yeah
He was like
He played American football
And was big
Don't pick on like
You know
We've been bullied
Us nerds
Have been bullied
We've been bullied
Enough already
Don't pick on us
Yeah
It's not fair
Dickhead
Anyway
What's next
Shall we do some facts
We shall
My tablet's not ready
Yeah
Which reminds me
Actually
When
When I was a youngling
In
In my job
And I had to
I had to be taught
How to go and
Deliver training
I had a mentor
Called Sean
Sean was a magician
And a stand up comedian
Really funny guy
Yeah
And he was teaching me
How to deliver this
Like training content
Right
Yeah
You have to keep it engaging
And blah blah blah
Anyway
We come back after lunch one day
And the digital whiteboard thing
That we were using
Was just broken
Didn't work
Yeah
And so everyone was
Kind of sitting down
Just turn it off
And turn it on again
We did all that
Turn it off
Turn it back on again
It didn't work
And I was like
Did you do
Henry Rollins on it
Yeah
So I'm going
Dude what are we going to do
Yeah
And he said
Well look
I've messaged the support guys
They'll come and figure it out
In a minute
Yeah
We just need to pad
Right
So watch this
So he just stood up
And started to do magic tricks
And tell jokes
Yes
Yeah
And then he did that
It kept him entertained
For like an hour
Yeah
Dude came in
Did some stuff
And made it work
And then
And I was like
Sitting there
And he was going
He looked at me like
There you go
But I'm not
I'm not a magician
Or a comedian
I can't do any of that
Yeah
And he was just like
Well you know
Find your thing to do
What
What to me
Worst mentor ever
Very funny guy
I love Sean
Sean if you listen to this
You're awesome
Oh and also
Sean was my mentor
For public speaking
And we were
We're in Prague
And I stood up
In front of like
I don't know
500 people
To talk about this thing
First thing I was doing
Properly crapping myself
Yeah yeah yeah
Sean was with me
In the front row
And I could see him
Right
It was great
And then it's
There's other people
There's another guy
Speaking before me
And it's my turn
And I get up
And I'm dead
Dead nervous
And I look to my mentor
Sean
Yeah
I can't see Sean
Sean's gone
And I thought
Oh maybe he's gone
To the toilet
Or something
Yeah
And I start speaking
And I'm like
Really nervous
And I kind of get
Part way through it
Kind of thing
And then I look up
And we're in like
A hotel lobby
And I suddenly look up
And I realise
The bar's open
Yeah
And Sean's at the bar
He's basically
Just abandoned me
And gone for a pint
Excellent
So there you go
As long as you've got
A mentor who
Who does that
You're in good
Right facts
So released
6th of April 1993
Yes
We talked about
Other stuff
That was released
In 1993
It was a massive
Massive year
First full length
Record on Zoo
Entertainment
Distribution by BMG
A couple of EPs
Before that
So they did
Opia and that
Other one
That I've forgotten
The name of
The numbers
The numbers one
Produced by
Sylvia Massey
With tour
We have already
Discussed how
Awesome Sylvia Massey
Is
If there's one
Thing you do
If there's one
Thing you do
After or
Stop now
Go and look
At Sylvia Massey's
Wikipedia page
There will be
An album on there
That you love
That she's done
She's just epic
Yeah
Runtime is 69 minutes
That's long for you
Although the album's
Not 69 minutes
It's got that long
It's not even a
Secret track is it
It's like fuzzy
It's got Disgustipated
On there
Now it's interesting
A lot of the CDs
Like
Like flood and
Disgustipated
Kind of get
Yeah
Wedged together
And Disgustipated
It's like this
Hidden track
Kind of thing
So it's a bit
Weird depending on
The pressing
That you have
Of the album
Oh right
Because at the end
On the version
That we've got
There's the static
Noise at the end
Of Disgustipated
Which leads to
A little spoken
Bit at the end
That's it
Yeah
But so on some
Versions
It's flood
Yeah
And then that
That plays out
Oh wow
Yeah yeah
Just a bit weird
Line up
Maynard James Keenan
On the vocals
Adam Jones
Guitar
Danny Carey
Drums
And Paul D'Amour
On bass
This is the only
Album with Paul D'Amour
Is it
Okay right
Right
I think
Danny Carey
Is spoken about
With such reverence
In the drum community
The thing is
Like I played
The drums at school
Yeah
And we played drums
On songs like
Poison
Yeah
And I found that
Quite hard
Yes
Right
Yeah
This
No
Not a hope
Yeah
Not a hope
I don't think
I could
Do you know
What I mean
Like
Yeah
I don't know
Drumming for me
Is like a feel thing
I don't think
You could feel
Your way through this
It's so
There's only one drummer
That can do this
And that's
Yeah
It's just
Excellent
And then
Justin Chancellor
Took over
For bass
Afterwards
Guest cameo
So Henry Rollins
Did the spoken word
On bottom
That we talked about
It's described
As a psychological break
Which I like
A lot
So
But it's a cool track
I really like that
And I think
I think it works
Incredibly well
Like you
We talked about
Before
The
It's like
The soundscape
Isn't it
If it's kind of
The atmosphere
On them
And it just
Works really well
Largely done in
Drop D
Yeah
Which is the
Best tuning
Really dry
Yeah
Massively dynamic
So not overly
Compressed
That's interesting
Actually
Because yeah
I always look at
The waveforms
As we're
Editing this
Thing together
Yeah
And it's
Interesting
You mentioned
That
Because the
Quiet bits
You can hardly
See
Yeah
But I think
It's interesting
Because if you
Like I'm trying to
Think of other
Albums that were
Released around
This time
Chaos AD
Yeah
Would be a good
One
Even Carcass
I mean the
Heartwork album
Is quite compressed
I think
Yeah
So if you
Listen to a track
From Heartwork
And then
Anything from
Undertow
Yeah
Undertow record
Sounds a bit
Quiet and a bit
Yes
A bit thin
Yeah
But
Turn the volume
Up
Yeah
For the heart
Turn the volume
Up on
Undertow
And it's
It comes to
Life
Yeah
For me
That's what
We lost
That's what
The loudness
Wars broke
Yes
That ability
To have an
Album just
Like envelop
You
Because what
Happens when
You turn the
When you turn
The compression
Up
You can't
Have an album
On that loud
It gets
Just the whole
Thing becomes
You know
Everything
Just gets a bit
Distorted
And a bit
A bit nasty
Whereas if
You've got
A record
That's produced
Like this
Yes
You can turn
The volume
Up
And you get
The loudness
And the quietness
And I think
That's bloody
Brilliant
Yeah
The track
That broke
The band
Was Sober
Yeah
So that was
The first
Single off
This record
Stop motion
Video
Again people
Really revere
That song
Oh it's epic
Don't they
Sober
Yeah stop motion
Video which I
Thought was really
Really cool
Yeah
It was created
By the guitarist
Adam Jones
He'd got like
A graphical
Background
He did
Tons of artwork
And stuff
Yeah so he's
Behind the artwork
The records
And also the
Videos isn't he
He's the kind
Of visual guy
Exactly yeah
Which I thought
Was really
Really cool
And the second
Single prison sex
Got like a quarter
Of the play
Of Sober
Because it got
Like all kinds
Of censoring
Yeah yeah
And in fact the
Band got in a
Whole bunch of
Weird trouble
With this right
So the artwork
So Adam Jones
Created that
Ribcage
Cover
That kind of
Red
It got censored
Now
If you go to
Riffology.co
Which is our
Blog
And you find the
Blog for
Undertow
I've put in there
The censored
Artwork
Yes
And it's like
A
What they did
Was they
Removed the
Red ribcage
And it's like a
Barcode
Oh right
Okay
But on the
Inner lining
Notes
Yeah
There's a whole
Bunch
Let me see
There's a whole
Bunch of
Stuff on there
And it says
Like it says
Tall undertow
On the
Like the
Spine
And then it's
I'm showing you
The
Yeah yeah
Sort of like a
Thing on there
But
So this is on
The blog
Yeah I'm just
Scrolling up to
The bit on the
Blog
But also you got
This on the
Inside
Yeah yeah
And it says
It came to our
Attention recently
That many stores
Across our fine
And open minded
Nation would
Not stock
Undertow
Because of
Our explicit
Artwork
Although we
Loathe being
Censored we
Still want you
To hear our
Music so
We took it
Out however
It's still
Available to
You at no
Extra cost
Fill out the
Form
Stick it in
An envelope
And we
Will send
You the
Original
Artwork
Love
Tool
Wow
So all of
That stuff
Is on the
On the
On our
Blog on
Riffology
Dot co
If you are
That way
Inclined
So that's
Really interesting
To me
That prison
Sex
Kindly you
Can understand
That
The album
Cover
I cannot
Understand why
This was
Censored
That's a bit
Weird
So
I don't know
Which parts of
America did
That but
I don't think
We got that
Over here
In Europe
The same
Parts
They did
The perennial
Advisory
Sticker
Which made
All the
Kids
Want to
Buy those
Records
Like having ribcages
Was like
Yeah you don't want a ribcage on your record do you
Don't want that
Yeah anyway a bit weird
That
Studio stuff
Christians against ribcages
They're against everything aren't they
Yeah
Someone asked me this week
Are they just going off
Christians against ribs
Someone said to me this week
What religion are you
Yeah
I don't know
Yeah
You must know
I don't
No
I don't know
I'm not anti religion
No
It's like
I don't know
I like loads of bits
Of all of the different ones
It's all good bits
I can't even
I've got my
Williams Formula 1 top on
Your religion is F1
I love
Williams Formula 1 team
Yeah yeah yeah
If you ask me my favourite Formula 1
I couldn't tell you
No
I just
I don't know
They've all got good bits
Yeah I don't
I just don't know
And bad bits
And that's the way it is
Just
Is that an okay question to ask people
What religion are you
Like
What's your favourite football team
Yeah
That seems alright
Yeah yeah
Or
What's your favourite
Or what's that singer
The skinny
One that does singing
She's great tonight
You know the one
The skinny singer
She does
Country singing
Oh yeah
Is it country
Beyonce
No
She does country sort of
No the other one
Britney
No
Christina Aguilera
Bit like Britney
More modern
Oh more modern than Britney
Yeah
Oh god
Not Celine Dion
She's older
Did you know
She's married
Married to an American footballist
Oh Taylor Swift
Taylor Swift
Yes
Like you could
I think you could say
What's your favourite
Taylor Swift album
Yeah
I don't think you can ask
What is your
What's your favourite religion
I don't know
Anyway that was
That was a question
That I got asked this week
Yeah
The answer's Buddhism though
I don't drink
Yeah
So this week's been hysterical
Yeah
So you go out
They all drink
And they're all on
They're all on like
Expenses and stuff
So they're all
By the time I get in
They're all slaughtered
Yeah
And then
It's just like
I got hugged a lot
I hate
I don't
A I don't like being hugged
Yeah
And I've discovered
I don't like being asked
What religion I am
There we go
So I don't know
Either of those things
Actually I've said Buddhism
Buddhism's strictly
Probably not a religion
What is it?
More of a philosophy
Oh
Or a philosophical system
Is it?
Yeah
Perhaps like lacrimology
Lacrimology
I would love it
If he totally made that up
Yeah
I'm sure he did
I'm sure he made it up
Maynard
He's trouble
So anyway
Disgustipated
Back to the facts
Yes
Tour breakthrough
So they were on the
Lollapalooza tour
1993
On the second stage
They got so big
During that
Yeah
That they were
Like they were
There was a lot of talk
Of bumping them
To the main stage
Oh really?
Wow
So this is kind of
A proper breakthrough artist
Yeah yeah yeah
They're not well known
Yeah yeah
And the crowds
Were so big for them
That they were
Really really close
To bumping them
But it's really quick
Like 93
Yeah
For me
This record doesn't fit
No
Doesn't fit the tone
Doesn't fit the
The world
Like if you were
But they weren't big
Over here were they?
No
No one really heard
Of them over here
You were an A&R guy
Right
You were working
At a record label
You want to
I mean
You want to sign
Nirvana
You know what I mean
You're looking for
Like
You want hits
Pearl Jam
You're looking for
Soundgarden
You're looking for
These kind of
That's where the world's
Heading
Right
This kind of
You're not looking
For like
Like weird
Six
Eight
Spoken word
By Henry Rollins
Yeah
But people were
People wanted it
Yeah
There was this heavy music
This kind of
This kind of gap
That was
You know
Coming through
Like if you look at where
Like Slayer were
And like where the
Kind of big
Like Metallica were
Yeah
You know
They were like
Metallica were in
Load reload land
It was shocking
Yes
You know
It's not this
No
So I just think
It's phenomenal
They even got
Signed
Do you know
What I mean
It's like this
It feels like
It's so not
On
In fashion
Yeah
This wasn't like
Super fashionable music
At all
Almost kind of
Made it
Fashionable
They kind of
Carved out
Their own space
I think
Which I think
Is really
Really cool
But yeah
Interestingly
Their success
They're almost like
Linear
Right
Everything they did
Just got bigger
And better
And bigger
And more fans
And it was like
They just couldn't
Seem to put a
Put a foot wrong
And it's interesting
That you joked
About the idea of
Religion
Or a cult
Because
That's what
That's what tall
Fans kind of
Are
To a certain extent
There's that lovely
Meme
Where
There's that lovely
Meme
Where that guy
Carries a
Oh
What's he carrying
Around
He's carrying
Like a
Essentially
The meme
Is like
This guy
Gets stopped
In the video
And asked him
And he starts
Talking about
Like
Number progressions
And stuff
Can I talk to you
About how great
Tall are please
And there is a bit
Of that about
Tall friends
Like you say
There's not
Do you know
What I mean
The music
Is actually
It's quite immediate
And easy
To listen to
Yeah
But you scratch
Beneath the surface
And the weird
Time signatures
Are there
And then the
Lyrics are
Like interesting
And weird
And he talks
About odd stuff
And you know
There's always
Bits in there
Where you know
There's always
Like a story
Behind the songs
And everything
Which you don't
Know whether
It's true or not
Whether it's a
Concert
Made it up
But yeah
But there is
And they're like
So I think
I don't know
I think it's
Fascinating
But tall fans
Are like that
They tend
They know
All this stuff
Yeah
They're into
The cult of it
Yeah
The lore
Cold's the wrong word
But the lore
Of the band
Yeah
Absolutely
Like Sleep Token
Are a bit like that
Yeah
I think
There's that kind
Of thing too
And yeah
An album was released
On the same year
As this
Like 93 was a big year
But you had like
You know
Siamese Dream
And In Utero
And Chaos AD
Yeah
Some really really
Big good heart work
Came out that year
As well
So it was like
A big year
Yeah
And you know
If you
If you were asking me
At the beginning of 93
Would like a
Like a semi-proggy
Yeah
Not widly-widly
Uber-Guitary
But like
Like a weird
Atmospheric-y
Proggy record
Do well
No
I wouldn't
I don't think
It would have done
I mean this is like
Not Korn era
Like weird stuff
This is
Yeah
93
It's really early
Yeah
But yeah
They just seem to
They seem to
I think they kind of
Carved like
When we talked about
Black Sabbath
Creating that space
Yes
And doing
They're just like
That was just who they are
That was the music they made
Yeah
And this kind of bubble
Built around them
And then all these other bands
Yeah
You know like
Connected to that
And we're like
Oh that's really cool
We you know
Yeah let's do some of that
And it like splintered off
Into all these different
Sub-genres and stuff like that
Yeah
I kind of feel
There's a little bit of that
Going on here
Where this record
Or not necessarily this record
Maybe Opiate as well
And then this one
Kind of solidified it
A little bit
Yeah
And then you've got
A bunch of other bands
That are kind of like
Oh actually
Yeah yeah yeah
I like that
I like that dark tone
I like the fact
Yeah yeah yeah
And then all this other stuff
Kind of flows off the back of this
Yes
But yeah
They definitely had
This kind of thing around them
And then they were not
It wasn't copied
It didn't feel like it
No
This felt like their scene
Yeah yeah yeah yeah
Yeah
So anyway
That's it for facts
Facts facts facts facts
Facts
So we're going to have
Prison sex now
And then we're going to
Discuss next week's album
Oh I've changed my mind
I'm so excited about
Next week's album
I've got
I can't
We'll talk about it after this
Have you had to tell me
No
Kind of
Play the thing
And we'll come back in a minute
It took so long to remember
Just what happened
I was so young and fast to live
Didn't know what I remember
But I'm breathing so hard and guess I'm still alive
Even the signs seem to tell me
Always got my hands down and my hands down and my eyes closed and my toes right on my mind
I do
I do unto others
What has been done to me
I do unto others
What has been done to you
I'm treading water
I need to sleep a while
My land and mother
You look so precious for what you
Won't you come on
Up close to the
Else we know still
I can swear on you
I need you to feel this
I can't stand to burn too long
Release his son of me
Oh, what a sweet moment I'm home.
Too good to me now, what has been done to me?
Too good to me now, what has been done?
Your breathing's up, I guess you'll be still alive.
Even the suns seem to tell me how it was, won't you?
Won't you come on up closer?
Oh, so not yours, I can smell you.
I need you to feel this.
I need this to make me cool.
Release inside of me.
Have you a witness of blood and less can be trusted of?
Holy, this one, holy, medium with no peace of mind.
That your hands are bound and your hands are down.
And your eyes fall.
It looks precious now.
You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of?
I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this
Sheer blood and come on my hands
I'll come round once I go
You're a witness of blood and less can be trusted of?
That's a sense of humor.
But honestly, if you met those guys, if you met Maynard, he was a hoot.
He was doing stand-up comedy at clubs in LA at the time that we were recording that record.
And the lyrics of the Tool records are very surprising if you actually know what they mean.
And then the artwork on the albums too.
there's a lot of hidden meanings.
And on the spine of the CD, you'll see little pictures of like, "Whoa, what's that?"
You know, a lot of mysterious imagery that they packed into those records.
Very good.
Are we done?
Yeah.
I like editing.
I like frogs.
You would take good editing.
I have to say you would take good editing.
I like it.
I like doing it.
You would take good at it.
You know, when you see people that like really love what they're doing.
Yeah.
And they kind of like zone into it.
Yeah, yeah.
There's...
If you...
It must be one of the most privileged things in the world to find that thing.
Yeah.
You know?
Because there are people...
They're normal people probably.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Never know what that feels like.
Never know what it's like to be...
Like for me, it's always been code or maths or like, you know, nerdy stuff like that.
Like your day can disappear.
You...
Yeah.
Like some mornings I get to my desk and I get my cup of tea and I start and I'll get so
deep into a thing.
Yeah.
You kind of...
The next thing I know, like the kids are back and it's four o'clock.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
My tea's like half drunk and it's cold.
Yeah.
And you've just been like...
You've just got locked into something.
Yeah.
The rabbit hole and your legs are stiff and it's all a bit weird when you stand up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But it's just this...
I don't know.
It's just this incredible state to get into.
Yeah, yeah.
And you get that when you're editing.
I do.
I absolutely love it.
I love it.
Yeah, you're in there and there's nothing else.
Yeah.
this chronology, this story out of these blocks of chaos.
Yeah.
I love it.
I like doing a video as well.
I don't really like filming.
I'm not into that.
Yeah.
Or I do like recording music.
Yeah.
But I really like taking the blocks of there could be chaos.
Yeah.
Like the interviews.
Yeah.
I like the puzzle of like knowing where they fit and how they fit in the story.
And I like it.
What's really fun for me is obviously I'm here when we make it.
Yeah.
And then when I go home and listen to it.
Yeah.
It sounds nothing like.
Well, not nothing like that.
Yeah.
But it's it grows into this thing.
Yeah.
It's not like we're just having the chat when we're here.
Yeah.
It's just us waffling.
Yeah.
And then you stitch it over into this thing that's like entertaining.
I like it.
You're still good.
That's the bit I like.
Yeah.
And if you've gotten this far, so do you.
Thank you very much for joining us.
It's it's incredibly, you know, we're incredibly privileged to have you with us.
So thank you very much.
There's more of you joining us as well, which is crazy.
Like each week.
It is weekly, isn't it?
Every week.
We're looking at the numbers going.
Yeah.
It's weekly.
We do it weekly.
Yeah.
It is.
It's it's lovely.
The show's getting busier and more if you were listening.
And yeah, for that.
I mean, it's great.
Yeah, really great.
So thank you.
Thank you very much for joining us.
And obviously, I think people are sharing is with their friends and have a good time.
We were contemplating doing some merch and doing some t-shirts and things.
But we were about a year into us contemplating that.
I've got the idea in my head, but I don't know quite how to do it.
What merch would you like?
Yeah.
Tell us.
Tell us what merch you'd like.
Just like Riffology, jock straps, whatever else.
Beanies.
I like a beanie.
Yeah.
I don't really wear a bit.
I wear baseball caps.
Do you know what people will want?
What they want.
They'll want long, thin, hot water bottles.
That's what they want.
And it'll say Riffology all the way down and you can snuggle up to a Riffology hot water bottle.
No, you're going to have to do that.
You'll have to get a photo of it and superimpose Riffology onto it.
I bet someone in China can make it for us.
They can make anything, won't they?
Yeah.
Imagine describing what I want.
Yeah.
Like a long, thin, hot water bottle.
Yeah.
No, it's not a penis.
It's...
What should we do next?
Right.
Well, it's interesting because you were like in different parts of the world where you
and I were today.
Simultaneously.
Chose the next band.
But then...
Yeah.
Both changed our mind while we were here.
Which is strange.
Did we change our mind?
Yeah.
Because we said hole.
Yeah, we did.
We said hole.
Because I was at Brew today.
I played a gig.
Yeah.
And Celebrity Skin came on.
I was like, we've got to do hole.
Why have we not done the hole yet?
That riff.
That...
It's wicked.
Probably one of the best riffs.
Yeah.
And then you started playing a song.
Yeah.
And you went, we should probably look at this next.
And I went, no way.
No way is this happening.
Like where...
Where there's that serendipitous kind of...
I want to do...
There's a whole bunch of albums that I want to do and I've just been...
You know, I had a lot of time.
Like to get from where we live to Scotland on the train and back.
It takes about 10 days.
Yeah.
It's forever.
It's really boring on the train.
And the internet doesn't work very well.
So I listened to a lot of stuff that I'd got on my phone.
And there were a few albums that really...
Or a few tracks of albums that really stood out to me.
And I just thought we've got to cover them.
One is Live Through This.
Yeah.
I'm whole...
Yeah.
Got to do that.
I think Bricks Are Heavy by L7.
Yeah.
Got to do that.
I also really want to do...
Do Little by the Pixies.
Yeah.
I don't know why.
There's just something about those three...
Yeah.
They're the ones who died into it.
...that's leapt out to me this week.
And I just thought, do you know what?
I think we should...
Because then when we were just talking just then before we hit record again,
you were saying that.
And then I went, well, let's go chronological.
Let's do the Pixies first.
Yeah.
And now you're saying that.
I'm going, we don't have to stick to the chronological rules.
We do what we want.
Because it's our podcast, we kind of make...
We basically make all our own rules and then break them anyway.
So...
So, Do Little was 1989.
Yeah.
Live Through This was 1994.
Yeah.
And then Bricks Are Heavy was 1992.
Yeah.
So, I don't know.
Well, I'll tell you what we should do then.
I know exactly what we should do.
Yeah.
We should go to the latest one because we were both on hold today.
We both...
Because that's a thing.
That's like a message from God basically saying you've got to do hold.
Well, it is.
And then...
Hang on.
And then...
And then you go back in time one.
And then you go back in time one again.
We could do that.
Yeah.
Or...
So, let's roll back a little bit.
Yeah.
So, for me, I listened to...
On my playlist, I had Violet and Miss World.
Yeah.
From Live Through This, right?
From Hole.
And then you said, actually, I heard Celebrity Skin this week.
Yeah.
And that's dead good as well.
Yeah.
That's got like...
It's got Celebrity Skin on there.
It's got Reasons To Be Beautiful.
It's got Malibu.
It's got like...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's good.
Boys On Radio.
It is.
But that's a poppy one.
And I quite like the Raw one, which is what that first one was.
They...
It is a proper punky record.
Yeah.
That was...
That was released days after Kurt killed himself as well.
Yeah, yeah.
So, there's like...
There's really...
I think there's a lot to...
Yeah.
There's a lot to unpack.
Yeah.
I think there...
With a lot of the lyrics, a lot of the...
Yeah.
I guess the way the press dealt with that as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, there was a lot...
They were kind of ripped apart a little bit in the press with kind of a...
Are you sure this is a good...
You know what I mean?
They're putting this out now kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Have you been waiting for this kind of thing?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, let's do it.
Let's do Live Through This by whole 1994.
Bosh.
I like it.
Yeah.
Do you know...
Was she one of the first people that was called a riot girl?
I don't know.
Do you know that whole class of girls that were like the kind of...
Yeah, there was, wasn't there?
You know, the whole punky...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I liked that.
Yeah.
I don't know about you.
She probably was.
Yeah.
That kind of...
You know, that whole kind of...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Screw you.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Because girls weren't like that in the 90s.
You know what I mean?
No, no, no.
There was like lad culture a little bit, I suppose, but not like early in the 90s.
No.
And yeah, Courtney Love was properly like up yours.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know what I mean?
I'm a punk rocker.
I don't...
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, I've just got like...
Because I'm a girl.
Yeah.
Do you know?
She was dead good.
Yeah.
Loud.
Yeah.
thank you for listening
alright bye bye
see ya
sorry