They're gonna put me in jail, man I'm already in jail
Don't they know that my life just won't excel
Rippology
Hello
The thing is, tonight, it's Sunday night, which is the night before we're actually going to unleash this on the world
It's kind of gone a bit off-kilter, hasn't it?
Yeah
The night started without the obligatory Coke Zero and Red and Black Fruit Pastel
I mean, it was an absolute disaster
We span into the studio, realised that we needed Coke Zero and Fruit Pastels
We took a left-hand turn into the garage, where we normally go and get these things from
And it was only coned off with a big van delivering fuel
I don't need that, I've got an electric car, don't care
But we couldn't get in, and so we had to go and do
I'll say that, I've got a petrol car as well now
Yeah
I keep forgetting that
So we had to go to Sainsbury's, and we've talked about the disaster that is Sainsbury's in the past
We don't sell Red and Black Fruit Pastels
Do you think there's not enough people listening to this yet to make that change, is there?
I don't know
Mr. Sainsbury, if you're listening
So what we ended up getting was normal Fruit Pastels
We have, yeah
Because we wanted a more intense flavour, we actually went for the Fizzy Sour Skittles as well
They're called Crazy Sours Skittles, and they're in like an illuminous green packet
But now because of that, because they're so intense
They are intense
The initial Fruit Pastels, the green packet of Fruit Pastels, are actually quite bland in comparison
That's true, although when we first came in, you popped the top off, stuck five in your face
And then proceeded to cough your insides out, didn't you?
I thought it was great
I was like, I'll just not have five of those, I'll make have one
This is Riffology
Hello
Hello, we are a weekly podcast
You're Neil
I'm Neil
I'm Chris
Yes, you're Chris
We do an album
We do
We dive in, do a deep dive on an album
We find out all about it
There is a blog at riffology.co
Yep
Which is massive now
Massive
Loads of people looking at it
It is, lots of people
Loads of people listening to the podcast
Yeah, we get caught people comment on the blog
Tell me what I've got wrong
Why do people do that?
Not that you shouldn't do that
Obviously, if someone's made a mistake, then you should tell them that
But no one ever goes, this is brilliant
I love this
We've had a few
We've probably had, I don't know
Probably out of, let's say we've had like 200 comments on blog articles
Yeah
I reckon 10 have been, wow
Total blast from the past
I love this album
Yeah
Totally reminded me of it
Yeah, thank you so much
Absolutely awesome
Thank you
That's it
It made me go back and re-listen to it again
You know, it reminded me of my youth and stuff like that
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
Yeah
And you think, oh, that's brilliant
All of the others
I think you'll find
Yeah
It was February the 2nd, not February the 1st
It's just all that
Actually, it's that voice, isn't it?
It is, yeah
And it's nice
Because I think, you know, they obviously educate me
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And I like it
But it's
Yeah, but you're not going to listen, are you?
I do change, I do edit them
Oh, do you actually?
I edit them and then go
Actually, I wouldn't do it out of principle
I do, I edit them and then I kind of go
I think you're fine
No, I don't do that
I don't
But thank you, everybody, for the blog
That's good
And socials are really good
People are really, really digging the socials
We do competitions and guessing album covers and stuff
Yeah
On the socials, which has been a lot of fun
I quite like those
They're quite good fun
Yeah, it's been good
We've been enjoying ourselves, really, lately
This week, we're doing The Anthrax, Persistence of Time
Which is one of my most favourite albums
Yeah, yeah, which changes on a weekly basis
Yeah
Which is also why you can't have a tattoo
It is why I can't have a tattoo
It is, that's true
Some of my most favourite albums
I remember the weight of them
Yeah
Is by how long I wore the t-shirt for
Does that make sense?
Right, yeah, yeah
So there was this one, which I had the t-shirt for
I had two t-shirts of this one
Yeah
And the cover, you know, the print
Went a bit flaky
Yeah, yeah
So I had to get another one
I think it was
I think it might have been a
You know, not a real one
Yeah
But the front thing, it came off
And then I got a proper one
And there was State of Euphoria before it
I had that
I loved that t-shirt
Yeah
The album we did
We did Soulfly last week
And then before that we did Beneath the Remains
I had a t-shirt of that
And I wore that until the arms fell off
So I wore it until it went grey
Then I dyed it black again
Yeah
Then I wore it until the arms fell off
And then I bought another one
Yeah, I mean that's commitment, isn't it?
I did, I love that one
But this, I
But then they look a bit better when they're a bit worn, I think
Yeah
I like it, I like it with Soulfade
Yeah, vintage
Vintage
But this was like
Road worn
1990
I was 16
And I didn't have a great deal of cash, to be fair
No
And so that's what you did
Yeah, yeah, yeah
You know, you would, you know, you would dye things and do whatever you could do
And it wasn't like you had a lot of, you know, I might have had like four or five like t-shirts
So there was a lot of rotation, you know, you would wear them
Yeah, yeah, yeah
But yeah, this was a, this was a big one for me
Yeah, yeah
Because of time
I liked the change in Anthrax at this point
Yeah, because there were that lo-fi-y kind of thrash kind of
Yeah
Thing
Because it was in 84 there
They were quite
Yeah, mid-80s
They were
They were a way in, weren't they, when they did this one
Yeah, so they were like power metal, I guess, when they started
Then they kind of went into the bit thrashy
And then, like the big breakout was Among the Living
That, that was massive
That got, like, that was all over MTV
And this other one was before this, the one before this
No, State of Euphoria was
Oh, State of Euphoria
State of Euphoria was before this
And then Among the Living was, was before that
Before that, okay
Everyone, like, you're, you're, you're elders, elders
You know, they're kind of elders, thrash elders
Among the Living, that was that, they liked that one
Fire happened
The fire happened during that record
Yeah
We lost a lot of our equipment
Maybe that's why that record is dark
But actually it's dark because we came off the State of Euphoria
Which was very happy
We were, I mean, in our career
We were just the happiest we've ever been
So I guess it was normal to be
Have this, you know, State of Euphoria
And then some people just wanted to take that away from us
Gave us, you know, this backlash and stuff
And I think Persistence of Time was the result
Persistence of Time, to me, has more in common with Sound of White Noise
Than it does, certainly, in State of Euphoria
Like, it would have made more sense as a follow-up to Among the Living
But if you listen to Musically, if you listen to the music on Persistence of Time
It's definitely closer to Sound of White Noise than it is to the record that came before it
Than Euphoria
And so you could kind of see where we were going
You know, we had made it
We had done something that, who gets to do that?
You know, like by that point, we broke
We were a band that was selling out multiple nights in places
You know, we were worth seven, eight thousand tickets
And we had made it
We were selling gold albums
The whole thing
Everything you dream about
When you're trying to make a band happen
And we were doing it
And then at the same time as all that's going on
Is there's this whole ugly side of the business too
Whether it's the business part of it
Or, you know, or just then trying to keep a band together
When everyone's focuses really kind of start to change
When all of a sudden success becomes a part of the equation
That's something you've never had to deal with before
And then as well as
Not so much here in the States at the time
But certainly overseas, they had a way of building bands up
And then tearing them right back down
That was kind of like the MO back in the 80s
With a lot of bands
And they tried hard with us
It didn't work
But they tried
And, but, you know, I just think
We just had more to deal with
Than we'd ever had to deal with before
You know, mentally
And all of that went into that record
It's just, everything changed
You know, you start a band
And it's fun
Okay, and then at some point
Business
Takes a hold of you
And then you have pressure
To follow up your last record
With a better record
And did they make the right record?
Well, I don't think they did
But they think they made the right record
You know, it's that type of thing
It really fucks with your head
Thank God, you know, we had A&R back then
To maybe talk about what you can do
And, you know, but for the most part
We were very, I don't know
It was, this is a close group
And we know what we're doing
Let us do it this way
Type of thing, you know
I think so much of that record holds up
For me, of that era of Anthrax
From Fistful through Persistence
That's my second favourite album
Among and then Persistence
And we did some really good shows
It was like good tours on that
That whole run, you know
It was good
Because aren't Anthrax one of the big four?
They are
They're very divisive
I would say
Right
The, A, the big four is quite divisive
Yeah
And that people disagree with who should be in it
So you always end up with like
Oh, Anthrax shouldn't have been in there
It should have been Testament
Should have been Exodus
Right, right, right
Should have been Overkill
Whatever
But it was done at the time
That they did it on the four
Bands with the
The thrash bands
Yeah
That sold the most
So that was Slayer
Yeah, it was Slayer
Anthrax
Megadeth
And Metallica
Oh, okay, right
Yeah, yeah
And it's interesting because
I think
Anthrax never really fitted particularly well
If you look at the others
They
Anthrax were always quite
Light-hearted, I would say
Yeah, yeah
So Euphoria particularly
Was quite a happy
Quite a fun album
It was, you know
It was upbeat
I would say
It was kind of a bit
You certainly get that from the
From the interviews
Like they're up for a good time
Aren't they?
Particularly the early
The early start
It was
I mean there were major chords
Yeah
For a thrash record
Do you know what I mean?
You're not used to
It's all down-tuned
And, you know
That was pretty upbeat
It had like Antisocial on it
It was a trust cover
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Super upbeat
So poppy almost
Yeah, yeah, yeah
In chord structure
It was a lovely, lovely track that they did
But they were on fire at that point
But the world reacted fairly negatively to it
Off the back of Among the Living
Which, again, was quite a fun album
But a little bit darker
You know, it was a bit more thrashy in place
State of Euphoria wasn't
And a lot of people kind of reacted a little bit
You know
This isn't what I want in my thrash albums
Yeah, yeah, yeah
You know, I kind of want
I want something different
I'm not sure I like this
So the world was a bit split
And I think Anthrax generally split opinion
Right, right, right
People either love them
Yeah
Or hate them
They're one of those bands
That, you know
People either absolutely adore them
And I think a lot of it is
Like the production
Is radically different
To the other thrash albums
Persistence of Time is written
You know, in 1989 and 1990
And like Among the Living
Was written back in 1985 and 1986
And there's just too many different things happening
Around me or in my life
So it's really
I can't compare one to the other
Because it's different
So the only
I mean the only
Besides the songs
And the songwriting
The one thing I can compare
Is production
From album to album
And by far
This is the best sounding record
We've ever had
And a lot of that
Is the vocals
Like Joey Belladonna's vocals
It's kind of
They've all got good names
Haven't they
In this band
They're all New York
Aren't they
Everyone in New York
Is like uber cool
Aren't they
And this lot
But this lot
This lot were interesting
Because almost the rest of it
Was happening on the other coast
The bay area
And so they
Yeah these guys
There were a handful of these guys
Like Overkill
I'm trying to think who else
Was down in this
This neck of the woods
But Overkill
Oh Prong were in New York as well
And these guys
There was a few others
Yeah
Also there was
There was a
Bay area contingent in San Francisco
Yeah
And a New York contingent as well
Okay
Doing similar
Doing similar sort of stuff
Yeah they were
But they had different tone
They were very different
So you got the New York tone
And you got the San Fran tone
A little bit
Yeah
There's a little bit of that
I think
And the lyrical constructs as well
Like the songs
And what they sang about
Was a little bit different
You know
They were
You can identify
That like
Kind of
Sonic difference
I think
Yeah yeah
It's full on like
East West Coast
Isn't it
Yeah
Thinking about it
It's totally the other side
It's
Yeah
I think so
And I think
This album
So Persistence of Time
For me
Was
Like
The band went
Darker
Like lyrically
Went darker
And it kind of went
A little bit more introspective
And it was a bit more grown up
Like
Matured
If that makes sense
There was a lot of like
Social justice aspects
Wasn't there
Not quite necessarily political
But
Certainly
The social justice
And the challenging of
You know
Oppressive
Kind of thought
Yeah
It's a lot of stuff about
Racism and hatred
Like H8
I mean there is some really
Strong language on the record
We don't say fuck
Basically
We don't say the word fuck
But
There's other words
In some of the songs
About racism
We have a line where
We say
Don't even try to tell me
What you think is right
When to you blacks
Are niggers
And Jews are kikes
And
I mean
That's really strong
I mean
The message behind us
Is really strong
Do you know what a funny story is
Is that I remember
There's a track called
H8 Red
Yeah
Hatred
Yeah
Took me probably about
10 years
To realise that
H8 Red
Was hatred
Yeah
So that's
That's how intelligent I was
I was a maths student
I didn't do language
But
They
Yeah
It was a
It was a shift
In tone
Yeah
But there was some
Just
There were just some
Absolute bangers
The way
This album
And was Joey Belladonna
Then
You understood
He was
Had he always been
The vocalist
No
Because they went
They had a couple
Of different vocalists
Didn't they
Yeah
So they started off
With a guy called
Neil Turbin
Yeah
I think he did
He did the first record
And then
And then Joey Belladonna
Came in
Now Joey Belladonna's
Vocals
Always remind me
Of kind of like
British heavy metal
Yeah
Kind of
Iron Maiden
Like D.O.
Do you know what I mean
You know that kind of
Like high
Power metal
Kind of stuff
Yeah just huge range
Yeah
Which was
Almost operatic
Yeah
Which when you think
About Dave Mustaine
Yeah
Or
James Hetfield
I mean
Yeah
Not really the same
Same kettle of fish
No
Not a lot of range
Going on there
No
And so
Yeah
I mean even
I guess
Slayer
Yeah
So
So Tom
Had quite a high register
Tom was quite high
But it was more kind of
You know
It was more screamed
Wasn't it
Yeah
Whereas Joey was
He's got a bang
And even now
He's got a banging voice
It was very
Very
Because is he back
With him now
Yes
Yeah
So he came back in 2011
For worship music
I think
Some of you will tell me
I've got that wrong
But I think he came back
This was the last record
That he did
With him on
So there's a very specific reason
We're covering this
Yes
Record
Because next week
We're giving it away now
Yeah
I want to do
Sound of White Noise
Yeah
Which is John Bush
Yes
Off of Armoured Saint
There's another band
That I absolutely adore
I love Armoured Saint
And I love John Bush
Now the John Bush record
Has got a lot of
Abuse
It's more songy isn't it
It's a bit
Yeah they went a bit
I wouldn't say grungy
But it's a bit
Kind of
Darker
A bit more like
Heavy rock
Yes
Do you know what I mean
That kind of stuff
And I really liked it
I thought they
I thought they were
Phenomenal
And
Yeah
They
They even re-recorded
Some of the tracks
Off this record
With John Bush
Right
Yeah yeah yeah
Late
Like
Not that long ago
Actually
I think it was for
One of the anniversaries
But
Yeah
It had a radical change
Yeah yeah yeah
And they seem to do
The anthrax do this
They kind of just
Like reinvent themselves
And switch and change
Yes yeah
And yeah I mean
It catches people off
Guard a little bit
Yeah yeah yeah
You know
But yeah I mean
This one is
The production's a step up
So
Persistence of time
The production is
Definitely a step up
Yeah yeah yeah
Where euphoria was
It's thicker
It's bigger
It's got that
It's got what I would
Consider that
American heavy metal sound
Yes
Whereas I'm not sure
State of euphoria did
State of euphoria was in that
It was kind of a little bit thin
Like thrashy
You know that thrashy thin sound
Yeah yeah yeah
It got almost punky sound
Yeah
Whereas this came out
With a big thick slab of
You know
In my world
Was the
Yeah yeah yeah
The big single
From this one
And got the time as well
Which was Joe Jackson
Yes
Who lives here
Yes
Where we're recording this
Swaddling coat
Yeah this is where
Joe Jackson was from
So we're allowed to talk
About that
Which was nice
We should have a statue
Of Joe Jackson
Yeah we should
We could hang a flag on him
For those that are not aware
Our compatriots across the UK
Are hanging flags on things
And we've genuinely got no idea
What's going on
But it's really nice to see the flags
It's really nice to see the flags
Yeah most are upside down
But I don't think it matters
Does it?
No
The intent's clear isn't it
Yeah yeah
Fly a flag
And I think if we had a
Joe Jackson statue
We should have a flag on him
Because he was awesome
Yeah definitely
And that track was mega
Yeah
Love the bass intro
Yeah yeah yeah yeah
So but anyway yeah
This one
Yeah lovely production
I think
Mark Dodson
Did the
Did the production on this one
Executive producers
John Zazula
And Marsha Zazula
I always thought this was recorded
At Electric Lady Studios
It was wasn't it
Do you know Electric Lady Studios
The Hendrix one
Hendrix yeah
Hendrix wanted a studio
When they did the Electric Lady sessions
Cost a bloody fortune apparently
In studio time
So he just went
Oh just get me one
Yeah so they
They turned this old
New York nightclub
Into a studio
Yeah
And apparently it was just
Abject chaos
They brought a proper acoustician
In to do the design work
Yeah
Did the work
And it flooded
And it was absolute chaos
Oh gosh
Eventually it was built
Hendrix recorded there for 10 weeks
And then died
Yeah yeah yeah
So hardly really used it
Yeah
Over the two years
Since the last album came out
I guess maybe we really felt
Time on our back
You know
Because all of a sudden
It's 1990
And you know
It was just seven years ago
You know
When this band was just starting
It doesn't seem that long ago
No way
And so time is flying
We did our last album here too
And we just liked the place
Close to home
The studio being Electric Lady
In Greenwich Village
Which Hendrix built for himself
I guess back in the late 60s
To do his records here
And for me it was more
I wanted to come here
Because I just know
Through the 70s
Kiss used to do a lot
Of their records here
So it was just a place
You would always see
Walking up and down 8th street
And you'd always see
This little doorway
And you just want to kind of
You know
Well I want to go in there
Because Kiss might be in there
Right now
So
But it's just great
And plus it's the top of the line
The control room here
The equipment
Everything's there for you
When you need it
The console they have in here
Is the only one in North America
So
This Focusrite console
I know it's kind of boring
To talk about the equipment
But
That was one thing
That made us come back
I always thought this was
Recorded there
And it wasn't
It wasn't
But it was mixed there
It was mixed there
Yeah
And it was
It was
It was recorded
At A&M Studios
And Conway Studios
So in Hollywood
Oh wow
Okay
And then
And then was
Mixed at Electric Lady
Yeah
I'm not sure what
Yeah I don't know
I suppose the studio
Doesn't have that much
Of an impact on the
No but I think
It would have been
About the person
Working at Electric Lady
Then
Who did the mixing
Because it wasn't
So it was mixed
By Steve Thompson
And Michael Barbario
Yeah
And then it was
Mastered by
Bob Ludwig
Yeah
Well Mark still
Engineered the album
But Thompson and
Barbario mixed it
And that made all
The difference in the world
Because it's
We've never had a problem
Recording an album
It's always been a problem
With mixing it
And getting the final mix
That we want
And Thompson and Barbario
They did the right job
Real good
I mean they're big names
In the world of
For a metal band
As well
At that time
I mean I know
Anthrax are like
A big band
But they were doing
Like U2
And stuff like that
Do you know what I mean
This would have been
Peanuts to those guys
Yeah
But yeah
It was
Yeah
And I remember
This one coming through
And just being
Blown away by it
It was one of those
You're right from the beginning
Where the kind of
Clock ticks
And then the guitar tone
Comes in
You've got like
Scott Ian's rhythm
Work on this
I think is
Just phenomenal
Absolutely
And then
As it progresses
There are bits
That are fast
The bits that are always
Stand out to me
There were the kind
Of mid-tempo
Bits
You know
Those kind of
Yeah
It's like they keep it
In the family
And in my world
Yeah
The one for me
Was intro to reality
It's like they're not a big deal of shit
Yeah, it's got a lovely feel to it, this album
It's quite dynamic
It moves around a little bit
And then, yeah, they're like Blood
and Keep It In The Family as well
Which, again, I really like
Then there's some quicker stuff like Gridlock
And that's more like the older stuff, would you say?
A little bit, yeah
Yeah, they were much, I guess, more open
to embrace slower stuff on this record
So if this is 1990
Yeah
Is that Black Album '91?
Black Album '91, yeah
Had Metallica already veered in that direction?
Because all I'm thinking is
They would have been off the back of 'Unjustice'
Yeah, right, okay
So it would have been quite similar
I'm just thinking of like
Would Anthrax have been seen as the ones that kind of retained
You know, as everyone else went more kind of bigger
and sluggier and rounder in their sound
Did Anthrax sort of retain the more kind of hardcore, you know, thrash guys?
I don't know
Mind you saying that, no?
Because you said the next, yeah, the next album was a different feel
Well, what was around this time would have been like Rust In Peace
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Seasons from Slayer
Both of those two were pretty mid-tempo
They were, I mean, they were kind of verging on like heavy rock
Still had that thrashy turn to it
So everyone's taking that direction
I think so, yeah
Painkiller from Judas Priest was this year as well
Cowboys from Hell
Really? Okay, yeah
And you had like
But then there was other big stuff like
Like Death was getting really big at this point in time
Yes, yeah, yeah
Like Left Hand Path and Day Aside
Yeah, so I don't know
Like some bands were going faster
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah
But the big four thrash
Yeah
Certainly Metallica went slower
Megadeth went slower
Yeah, I just, that's what I mean
It's like how did, I wonder who set that trend off, you know?
Yeah, I don't know
It's an interesting one, isn't it?
It definitely, like in the mid 80s, it was all about speed
Yes, yeah
You know, and all of those bands were about playing as fast as they could do
And like famously Megadeth
Like Dave Mustaine wanted to play faster than Metallica
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
And it was all about how fast you could play the guitar
Yeah
Slayer were, you know, just absolutely going as fast as they possibly could do
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Anthrax never did that
They were, they were kind of in that territory
Yes
But they never ever were like extremely, you know, they never did like extreme fast stuff
Mm
But yeah, like everybody was kind of, like in that group was slowing down here
Yeah, yeah
But then you had other bands that were, that were not, they were going faster
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah
And I'm thinking a lot of Exodus as well, like Exodus and Overkill
And they were still fast, you know, they were, they were
I could, yeah, I've just got that kind of narrative in my mind where it's like
You know, as these other bands slow down and become massive kind of thing
Yeah
Who's kind of holding the torch?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Who's holding the torch for the thrashlands?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
I think it probably would have been like Exodus and stuff
Yeah, yeah, yeah
They were just doing Exodus album
Yeah
Bonded by blood or something
Yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
They were dead good, they, they, they were just fast
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
And it was interesting because like famously Anthrax, they talked about, I remember listening to an interview and they talked, someone was saying why do you not have a ballad on your albums?
Right, yeah, because everyone else has a ballad
And they were like, that'd be wimping out, you know, that'd be, that'd be wimping out
But actually on this one, that intro into reality
Yeah, it is kind of
Kind of got that sort of thing to it, yeah
Yeah, I mean it's not
Well I remember how even James Hetfield felt about Nothing Else Matters
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
You know, because he was quite, he was sort of like, oh I don't know, it's a bit cheesy and it's like, it's not that, that's not Metallica, it's like, but it ended up being a huge massive hit for him, so
I think that was Bob Rock, wasn't it?
Was it?
Yeah, I don't think
He talked him into it
Yeah, although Lars takes credit for it, I suspect it was, I think from the interviews it was Bob, you know, saying
He said, yeah, you should definitely record that as Metallica, I think
Yeah, have the confidence and just do it
Yeah
And it was the first time that James had sung
Yeah, yeah
You know, yeah
I mean, James famously not
Yeah, just wasn't into it, was he?
Not being confident about his voice
Yeah, yeah, yeah
You know, I think up to, like, Master of Puppets was referring to himself as the temporary singer, you know, and which, and we've talked about this before, but, you know, he is the sound of Metallica
Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah, totally
And to imagine that the sound of Metallica didn't think that he, I just, it's, I don't know, mind bending really, but, yeah, the other thing I want to talk about with this album
Um, and it is one of my favourite albums
Yeah
The songs were all too long
I looked at that earlier
I was listening
Because what happened was I was listening through
And I was looking at the songs
And it was like, it wasn't very far through the record
For saying how much music I'd been listening to
Yeah
And then I still looked at the track time and sort of went, how come you like this?
It's weird, isn't it?
Yeah
Because you've got six, seven minute songs
Yeah, they are
Yeah
It's mad
Like, keep it in the family, seven minutes
Yeah
In my world, six and a half
Which is, of course, almost a meatloaf intro
But it's, yeah, they're all really long
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I don't know, they don't feel long
No
To me
No, no, no, no
I suppose that's when you know he's done right though, isn't it?
When the time disappears
The persistence of time, the persistence of track times
That's what this is
Yeah
Do you know the other thing I like about this album
Is that when you hear Charlie Benante and Scott Ian talk about
Yeah
The persistence of time
Yeah
And what it means
They both give different answers
Oh, right, okay, wow
Wow
So, like, Scott Ian
And again, I think this is really cool
This is, it's worth, it's worth digging into this a little bit
Because, like, famously, Charlie often names the albums
Yes, yeah
Before there's a song
Yeah
Or
He's just got the concept
Yeah
Yeah, he's just
Or something jumps out of the universe
And he's like, that's what it's called
Yeah, yeah, yeah
He's just got this idea
A bit like, you know Megadeth named Rust in Peace
Yeah
Off a bumper sticker
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Dave Mustaine saw a bumper sticker and it said
"May all your nuclear weapons rust in peace"
Yeah
And that's where the
And he got the idea
Yeah, yeah, yeah
This concept rust in peace
And then built the album around that
Like, persistence of time
Charlie came up with the idea
Yeah, Charlie came up with the title
And then I wrote the song "Time"
And basically saying it
If something doesn't happen right away
Or if you don't have, like, some kind of overnight success
No matter what you do in life
It doesn't mean it will never happen
And if you work hard and you get out there and do something
With your life and make something of yourself
Then you'll be successful
And with just telling people
I mean, the basic message behind it is just to get off your ass
That's the basic message
That takes it down to the bottom line
And I think both Charlie and Scott had different perspectives
Yes
Although the album kind of came together
Well, I think Charlie talked about it in terms of mortality
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And you know, you're not here for a very long time
Yes, yeah
So, you know, whereas Scott Ian was very much like
You know, I mean, it's still kind of time related
But it's about, you know, getting up off your ass and doing something
Yeah, yeah, yeah
It's about, you know, making the most of the time you've got
So, I guess similar
Yes
But it's interesting that Charlie usually talks about it in terms of mortality
Yeah, yeah
And, you know, death is coming and, you know, it's coming to everybody
Timey Avenger
Yeah
As it says in our famous, world famous swaddling cloak clock
Nearly said someone else there
Oh yeah, it does, doesn't it?
Yes
Yeah
Is it world famous, our clock?
It's definitely, I know about it
Do you know the most famous thing near us that are still, I love to pieces
And that's the Barry Milner Bridge
Oh, I don't know what that is
So
Which bridge is that?
It's out near Moira
Yeah
So it's not actually in Swaddling Co
Yeah
It's maybe three miles, four miles away from where we are right now
Yeah
The one that goes near Rawdon
Pit
Yeah
Why is that called the Barry Milner?
I love Barry Milner on it
And then, and then somebody, somebody scrubbed it out
Yeah
The council probably
Yeah
And then somebody wrote Barry Milner is thick
And then the locals have all got together
Yeah
And all registered it on Google
Oh, as the Barry Milner Bridge
As an attraction called Barry Milner Bridge
And they've all left reviews of it
And now it's on
No, you know what's going to happen now
And now it's on TripAdvisor
So
We've set up a thing
They're going to be all these guys coming over from the States just to visit the Barry Milner Bridge
And you look at it, and you look at all the reviews of it
And it's like, oh, Barry Milner Bridge is the best thing ever
Yeah
It's phenomenal
People talk about having picnics there
And it's literally a road
And it's an old railway bridge
And it's just, there's nothing
There's literally nothing there
It's just a road
Near Cyrus Wood, yeah
Yeah, yeah, it's awful
It's a grey, battleship grey bridge
That used to have Barry Milner
Yeah, I love Barry Milner on it
Yeah, and then there's this lovely thing going on
Who's Barry Milner?
Yes, yeah, yeah
And I like that
Yeah, totally
It made me want to do
You know, when I first discovered it
I thought we could do a podcast about that
Yeah
We could find who Barry Milner is
Well, we've done it now, haven't we?
Yeah
And now it's out in the world now
If you know who Barry Milner is
Yeah, yeah, get in touch
Then write it and tell us
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Or just make up a story
That would be even better
In fact, do you know what?
Make up a Barry Milner story
If you're American and you're looking for a name for your band
Yeah
Call it Barry Milner
That would be the coolest thing ever
Yeah, yeah, yeah
And nobody would like
People are going, why?
Would it be called Barry Milner?
Or would it be Barry Milner and they?
You know what I mean?
Like when the people are there?
Barry Milner and the bridge
Yeah
Barry Milner's bridge
I just think it would be brilliant
Yeah
No one would imagine like a massive
Like a Nirvana
Yeah
The massive
Yeah
Or like the Foo Fighters
Yeah
And called Barry Milner
And the press going, why are you called Barry Milner?
Oh, it's a bridge in Swaddling Coat
And then like a thousand people going to the bridge
Yep
Oh, that's great
In the future when the aliens get to the podcasts
It'll actually be a heritage site
It would be an important landmark of human civilization
We need to go and pay homage to the bridge
We should take a bit
I'm going to try and take a bit
On our socials
I'm going to try and find a picture of the bridge
Yeah, and put it on
Yeah, because it's brilliant
I used to live there
I used to drive under that every day
And I loved that
I love Barry Milner
Yeah
So is Moira still South Derbyshire
Or is that North of Leicestershire?
Oh, it's really complicated
Half of it is in Leicestershire
And half of it's in Derbyshire
Is that a line?
Yeah
I once had the wheels stolen
off my car
It's that kind of place
And when I rang the police
Yeah
They said
Do you live above or below the post office?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
So what would happen?
Sorry, sorry
And I'm like
Dude, I've had the wheels stolen off my car
I don't want to send an envelope
And it's like
No
Well, like
If you're on this side
That's us
If you're on this side
That's somebody else
Somebody else
But what would happen
Right?
What would happen
Is it all the four wheels?
Yeah
What happened then?
If your car was outside the post office
office oh the front wheels which the back wheels yeah we're in northwest you'd have to ring both
oh mate i had to break into that house you know did you yeah i had um um i really
this is good this is gonna i mean where are we now i don't know we're gonna be like i have no
idea where we are 40 50 minutes in so we're only just going off piece that's good for us bear with
me this would have been in 2001 or two rather pdas were a thing remember pdas like they're kind of um
palm pilots and i had i was doing a bunch of stuff at work about these hey um like the xdas they were
kind of metal things and i had like two or three of them and we were working on a bunch of projects
i worked with them so i had them at home anyway uh uh got them at home went out for the weekend did
the things that you did uh then and then monday morning came to uh go to work and pick them i
couldn't find them and then i thought oh well that's where i'm not you know they're always in
the same place i couldn't find them and then as i started to look around i noticed other stuff was
missing oh god like like um but no like like weird stuff like yeah yeah i had a an old toshiba laptop
which was old in 2000 you know it was like this would have been a relic yeah and that was missing
as well and i thought wow that's that's like dead weird um and then i was looking around other bits
are missing anyway like a day later i was outside in the garden and my neighbor was like did you hear
about all the break-ins oh wow going yeah no no talking about and then and then yeah like all
that whole row of all got houses yeah and i was and i was oh and the thing that was really funny is
the police came on the saturday and asked me and i i was generally generally like no sorry no i didn't
know yeah yeah sorry mate no no i've tried to go back and ring lots loads of stuff yeah and then
i mean just imagine how sus it sounds yeah actually mate yeah did you have anything stolen no no
and then i actually i've lost like three three pbas
so i'm sure they thought i was like i thought i thought it was me yeah yeah yeah definitely yeah
yeah i was glad i moved actually yeah yeah yeah that was a bit weird so where you were above or below
the post office i can't remember
it said sddc on the bins oh yeah that's south derbyshire district council yeah you know one of
the funniest things i ever did was i had we had a camera club called south derbyshire camera club
and the number of people that we were sdcc yeah and the number of people that got confused between
sd dc dc and sdcc so we would get messages you get angry ones about potholes yeah about bins being
emptied and stuff we're the camera club we do pictures of swans and that you'll be wanting
barry milner bridge yeah you'll be wanting you'll be wanting the council they do bins
and weird people are weird aren't they yeah yeah absolutely i like weird people i wanted to talk
about oh go on um the strange you alluded to it then when you spoke about charlie benante
yeah and him kind of doing the album title and song title that sort of thing so the way they write the
songs is a bit weird isn't it in comparison to how you normally write the songs we were a lot fresher
going in just to write it after we got home in july of 89 and uh we took off for three months so it
really gave us a chance to um to just be away from the band for the first time in years we hadn't had a
break in like four years so uh it was something that was really important to us because it's really
first vacation we ever took away from anthrax so when we started writing in october uh it just made
things go a lot smoother everybody was like really uh into being there and looking forward to uh to
writing and uh just made things work a lot easier for us after after taking a break i interviewed charlie
benante uh at the rock city yeah yeah um which was bizarre expected i've got a detour a little bit
yeah yeah so is this when you're sorry i'll let you tell the story i know this story i got an invite
to to go and interview uh anthrax i was like yeah i'm so excited so i headed up it was february january
or february free absolutely freezing cold snowing like you know that kind of snow it's not settling
on the ground but it's snowing it's really cold and anyway i'd been to like starbucks and had a cup
of tea had three wheeze three or four wheeze and i thought i can't i can't sit in here all afternoon
so i kind of went up to rock city thinking they might let me in now yeah yeah yeah so i banged on
the door i said look i i need i'm going to do to interview charlie in an hour can i come in yeah and
then oh yeah just because it's you because i was i was a regular like pretty much part of the furniture
yeah yeah yeah and they were like yeah in you come so they let me in and then they said oh look um
charlie's out the back uh you know just sit here yeah yeah and it was in their kitchen area
right yeah yeah and so i'm sitting down there and then scott ian came in yeah it's just me and scott
in there yeah and scott uh sits down to have his dinner he's having like chicken and potatoes yeah
and he looks at me and he goes what are you here for yeah i'll just talk to charlie about the album
and that and he says oh so have you anything to eat no she said you want some chicken so i sat there
yeah just just got you know i mean not in silence but it was like it was do you know what i mean
it's just the most it was literally kind of good chat and then yeah it's great and then anyway i went
to uh so were you still mid dinner yeah charlie i was kind of yeah well i know i finished my dinner
and then charlie comes down and we're going we're going and had you had dinner before you went no
also it was all right then it was perfect so you went like double dipping with your dinner no no no
no it was great um i didn't even know that like rock city fed yeah yeah yes but they do yeah and
anyway i say um either there were anthraxes i didn't even think about that yeah anyway i'll go for
the interview and i was chatting to to charlie about how the songwriting had changed oh no you
what you must have eaten the singer's dinner then do you enjoy this dinner
sounds great um but so so i was talking to him about that kind of going like
like over the years like going back to like neil turban days and back in the you know back in the early
days and i wasn't really involved in the writing that much then um you know kind of in the mid
day it is around among the living time you know that i i kind of became the de facto writer so i
would go and write the songs and but he said that they they would be like these these demos and he said
they it wasn't like uh back then it wasn't like a song necessarily but i had this tape with me i used
to carry this four track round and he said no right on the guitar so i i would get an idea i'd wake up or
you know you'd be on the bus or whatever and i get this idea and i just put my headphones on and
just strum the riff into the into the tape and then when we'd get together again when it was album
time frame it would be like just playing these clips of songs together and then we'd pull it
together as a band and as we've gone on that's turned into me now bringing almost complete songs
like to the the the riff and the song structure roughly is kind of together um probably no lyrics
um and then you know the rest of the band will put the other music around it um and he said then
like scott it's normally like scott and i will then get together in new york and then scott will do some
rhythmy parts you know and add some of the rest and kind of yeah yeah yeah judge it up a little bit
but then typically scott will write most of the lyrics yeah so and he's not the singer so he won't
be delivering the songs so so charlie benante's the drummer he writes the guitar and writes the songs
yeah and then the rhythm guitarist writes most of the lyrics most of the lyrics yeah yeah and that
bizarre yeah and it was interesting whatever works in it however you get to the song is what works but
it's an unusual setup and then he said what will happen he said scott and i will kind of bash the
songs around and we'll get them to the point where it's now a song right so it's it's roughly what you
might you you might consider like a demo and then we'll play that to the band and then the song
becomes the song when everybody goes ah okay you know i'm going to add this you know what i mean and
then and then the rest of the band will it will change and especially when like joey at that point
when joey would come in to sing it yeah yeah often with you know saying often we'll change the
structure of the song yeah uh just for flow and maybe for breathing or or when you actually hear
someone sing it doesn't sound quite the way you yeah imagined it would do so you might change it a little
and yeah exactly but then what was interesting and i the question i'd really got for him was how did
it change between uh uh writing with joey and uh writing with john bush yeah yeah and he said like
he said it was like like when it's a when it's a different range of vocal yeah it's a different range
and he said um i was asking him the question like do you like when you're writing the song do you hear
joey's voice and like did you and he said yeah he said i you know i he said as i'm writing the song
so normally the riff will come to me first and then i'll think about how to turn that into a song
yeah and but then he says as i'm doing that i'm hearing joey's voice so at that point when we were
doing um persistence of time so don't write in those songs yeah i'm imagining yeah like joey's voice and
the registers and how that how his voice will kind of run through it um and then uh you know and then
when we when we started to work with john bush i had to rethink right to do that you know because
those songs were not not that john bush couldn't sing them but he's a much lower register and it was a
different tone and and those songs were like really different they kind of yeah you know i had a
different texture to them and stuff so um but yeah he was saying that they you know had to kind of
almost relearn how to write which is why those records those john bush records sounded so different
they had a real a real significant change but yeah they're a really cool band i think in the way
that like you say just the way that they've learned to create the music to work yeah they they were
always a band as well i think and if they started to come out much more in euphoria and and this record
where they first started to come through but these really big hooks so kind of big melodic um you know
like super hooky yeah yeah uh tracks where you and choruses like proper yeah yeah proper singy
choruses i would say you know and clever lyrics yeah guitar works excellent as well oh yeah it works
excellent i mean you've got the you've got really strong riffs and it's quite simple but yeah but then
but then when there's little licks and yeah lead bits that come in and that sort of stuff it's really
tasty it's really really lovely i are oh anthrax live are a band that i've always been blown away
by always we're just five normal guys and being on stage for us is the best place to be being in a band
is playing live um it's just a lot of energy i mean i i couldn't imagine playing this music and not being
the way i am on stage you know i couldn't just stand there it just wouldn't work i saw them on the
40th anniversary tour um and it was epic it was a memory of um it was anthrax wasn't it when with
nancy on your shoulders at down yeah yeah yeah that was really cool went to um downloads it was one
of the year we played i think so it was kind of like 2019 2019 yeah so nancy would have been what
four or five maybe so yeah she was what she went wild she was like wow she was loving it she was loving
life and she was on your shoulders giving it the horns and she was yeah yeah she was i had backache
neck ache then you only wake up the next day and you're like oh my god what was that all about
yeah she was mad she like everyone was just loving it yeah yeah everyone around it was a little
celebrity she was a little she still is bless her but yeah that was really cool they're they're
phenomenal live though like for me they like somewhere like rock city 2 000 people yeah yeah yeah
and not that they're not a stadium band because i think they do they do i've seen them at stadiums as
well on like um clash of the titans tour and things like that and and they um they supported slayer yeah
on their final final not obviously their final tour but they're still touring so whatever that means but
i saw them on that with um with slayer and again they they were just epic they're really good but for me
they come alive where you've got um you know a relatively enclosed yes big enough that you've got
a lot of people but yeah um yeah they they're just epic and a lot of that i think is down like charlie's
drumming is just uber precise yes yeah and scott's guitar that kind of down picking and that do you know
what i mean he's got this uh like really deliberate do you know what i mean it's not um yeah that's a great
word for all of it it all sounds really deliberate it's not you know like some guitar like you listen
to joe satriani plays like it's like liquid it's like yeah it's like he's pouring the music from the
guitar somehow and it's like do you know what i mean it's there's not these step changes somehow yes
yeah well as scott when scott's playing it's like big slabs of stuff you know what i mean it's kind of
this there's a proper deliberate beginning and an end and it's really uh like uber controlled and it just
live that to me and not that it's not on the record but live that just seems to like leap
out at you and just sounds phenomenal um and some of those riffs as well on here um and this tracks
on here as well that i think like keep it in the family yeah yeah yeah it's just such an epic riff
yeah yeah um it's kind of i don't know it's kind of like a hidden gem i think yes on this record
so
So
so
So
so
So
To kill a man is that your fate? Your fate becomes a holy state. Why the hell do you hate?
Other than the standpoints, other than the favorite. I am, we rebel.
We're the truth and I won't keep it in the family. Live your life, take some help. Keep it in the family. The real world's outside your door. You can't keep it in the family. You got the longest way to fall. Keep it in the family.
I'm the thing that you won't fear. I won't keep it in the family. I'm the truth that you won't fear. Keep it in the family.
The real world's outside your door
You can't keep it in the family
You've got the lowest place to fall
Keep it in the family
We've done some stuff on this album
That we've never done before
There's like three tracks on this album
That we've never had anything like
This song Keep it in the family
There's no other anthrax song like it
I think they're one of the few
There aren't other bands doing this
Metallica are still epic at the moment
Yeah Megadeth too actually
I think Dave's voice is
I think he had throat cancer didn't he
And struggles a little
But you know they are
Yeah anthrax for me are kind of
Better now than they were
Back in the 80s and 90s
And Joey Ballard
If anyone's not heard
You kind of see Guns N' Roses now
You see Motley Crue now
And it's like a pay a limitation
Of what you imagine they should be
Like it should be really punchy
And it just isn't
But anthrax are
Anthrax are just
I don't know
Larger than life
I would say
Yeah yeah yeah
And you know
Always look like they're having a blast as well
Yeah
Which after like
40 odd years
It's difficult isn't it
You imagine
Doing this for 40 years
Yeah yeah yeah
I mean this record
It's like 35
Yeah yeah
Yeah 35 years
Yeah
35 years last week
Wow yeah
And it's
It's
Yeah
And they're still doing it
And they're still hitting it hard
And they're still
Yeah yeah
And they've not talked about it
I'm sure they're in the studio
For new record stuff
I'm sure
I'm sure they're kind of
Getting ready to do new stuff
But yeah
I don't know
But everybody's calling it quits
Aren't they
Yeah yeah yeah
So Slayer
Have kind of called it quits
Megadeth have said
Their last album
Yeah
This year
So they're
They're kind of saying
Look this is
This is it for us
And just make you wonder
How long
They'll kind of keep it up
But I think of all of that
Big four
Anthrax are the ones
I'd expect to just
Just carry on
Yeah
Just keep going
Yeah yeah
I think while this
I think while people care
What people are there
I just kind of get the feeling
They'll keep going
In a way it's easy for us
When we're writing now
Just because we've done
We had done four albums
And we just kind of know quicker
Whether or not we like something
Whereas in the past
Sometimes we would write songs
And then three months later
We wouldn't even like them anymore
So we wouldn't even use them
Whereas now
It's more like an instant thing
We could really tell right away
Whether we like something or not
And I think that's
That just comes from
You know from maturing
And you know doing a lot of albums
And basically just knowing
What you want
Did they have a break?
Yeah there was a massive
Well I'd say there was a massive
But they did have a fairly big break
It was during that period
Where this kind of music
Wasn't very fashionable
No that sort of 2010s
Sort of thing
Yeah they put out some
Yeah
Yeah they did do definitely
Yeah
That new metal
Yeah yeah
Okay right
Phase if you like
So things got a bit bizarre
They did
They did the kind of
John Bush record
Which I thought were really great
Then there was like a
You know
And then the next real one
That was worship music
I think
It was a 2011
When that's when
Joey Belladonna
Yeah they brought them out there
Kind of came back
And yeah
I think I saw them on that tour
Yeah
And to be fair
They were pretty rusty on that tour
They didn't
That didn't feel
That's probably the worst
I'd ever seen them
Yeah yeah yeah
They were still really good actually
But they
Yeah
You kind of got the feeling
But they weren't that
They didn't have that cohesive
Kind of anthrax thing
Yeah yeah
It wasn't quite right
Yeah
And then I think the thing for me
That moved the needle
Was I saw them at the Barrowlands
They recorded
For All Kings
There's a DVD that they did
Recorded at the Barrowlands
In Scotland
Which I always
It's epic that place
I always think it's bizarre
That people choose to record stuff there
It's not like
You know
I mean it's a famous place
But it's
Yeah yeah yeah
It always seems like an odd place
But it
It was really really cool actually
Yeah
And
Yeah that
That for me
It was that tour
That they
It just felt like
They were back
You know
And they were kind of like
Yeah no this is
Properly on form
You know
Loads of energy
Yeah
Yeah exactly as I've kind of
Remembered them
Classic anthrax
Yeah and then I'd seen them
A few times after that
And it was always just
Kind of on par
I think the best
The best I've seen them
Was on the 40th anniversary tour
Though
Yeah yeah
They were
That was
It was quite emotional
Like at the beginning of that show
They had a curtain
That was down
Which is not like
It's not
It's not their sort of thing
Not a kind of a theatrical band
But they had a curtain
That was down
And just as the kind of
The background music stops
They then play this video
Yeah
From the back of the stage
On the curtain
Nice
And it's kind of people
From other bands
It's like people from Metallica
Yes
And from Exodus
And all these people
From Judas Priest
Talking about
Anthrax
Yeah
Talking about
What it means to them
And all the
Aussie was on there
And it was like
Yeah it was properly
The metal community
Coming together
To celebrate each other
Yeah it was
It was a bit
It made me a bit emotional
To be honest
And then
Music should be
Yeah I think
Phenomenal
And then of course
You see like
As soon as then
They start
You've got 50 year old men
Who should know better
With super tight trousers
And white plimsolls
And two tight t-shirts
With grey hair
Flying everywhere
You know
Crowd surfing to the front
And it was epic
It was
It was one of the
Best nights
I think at Rock City
I had in a long time
And it was
Yeah
Absolutely epic
But there was just
There's something about
The crowd
And about the band
Yeah
That just works
Really really well
Yeah yeah yeah
Shall we do some facts
Yes
Let me get my fact sheet
I'm
Vaguely ready
For my fact sheet
So let me try
And do my facts sheet
Was released
On August 21st
1990
And it's currently
August the 30th
Ah
2025
Yeah
Which makes it
Just over
35 years old
Which sounds very
Very old
It was released
On Megaforce
And Island Records
They did a
Like a
Compilation called
The Island Years
Which had a lot
Of these tracks on there
Which was pretty
Pretty cool
And it was nominated
For a Grammy
In 91
They toured this album
Really hard
Yeah
And there were some
Lovely bits on there
So they did all kinds
Of cool touring
And
You know
Festivals
And all kinds of stuff
The thing that always
Stands out to me
Was they were on
Married with Children
So they were on
They were on an episode
Called My Dinner
With Anthrax
There's a link to it
In our blog
On Rufology.co
If you do not
Remember seeing it
It was bonkers
The kids are married
With children
Won Anthrax
In a raffle
Anthrax just turned up
There
They were abusive
And did all that
Because married with children
I don't think you could
Get away with it
It's a little bit
It's very funny
But it's a bit
It's not very PC
Yeah
And anyway
They
They ended up playing
Which was
Yeah
Pretty pretty cool
It was recorded
December 89
To February 1990
In A&M Studios
And Conway Studios
In Hollywood
But mixed elsewhere
It runs 58.40
That's a long album
It's a long
For a kind of
Thresh album
You've got a 60 minute
Limit haven't you
You've got a proper
Any time of a 60 minute
And it goes off
At 60 minutes
Can't pay attention
Not any more than that
Can't pay attention
For more than 60
That's crazy
Absolutely crazy
Produced by Mark Dodson
And Mark Dodson
Did State of Euphoria
As well
Sound really different albums
Yeah
And we talk about
Producers a lot on here
And how they have
Their tone
And stuff
But I mean
Quite clearly
A producer can
Do different things
And I think
That was really evident
One of the
Thing
I remember in the
Interviews with this
And it's in my
Fact sheet as well
They had a fire
So they had a
Recording space
Like a rehearsal space
And it sat on fire
And all of their live
Gids went like
A hundred thousand dollars
Worth
Reputedly
Of stuff just
Disappeared
Which was
Really tough for them
Really
I remember hearing
Interviews with the band
At the time
And they were pretty down
And they were like
Well it would
That's your livelihood
Isn't it
That's like
And it's
And the thing is
The thing you've got to
Remember about a band
If you're not in a band
Is that they're very
Close
Knit
Like bubbles
If that makes any sense
And it's you versus
The world a little bit
You know as a team
And if something like
That goes on
That's going to be
Pretty disruptive
And pretty destructive
To the ethos
Of the whole thing
But it's just like
There are things
That you connect to
I mean it's
I'm not particularly
Materialistic
And I know you're not
But there are things
That you attach
There are things
That I really like
And they're not like
Super expensive things
They're not like
Super aspirational things
But there are things
That I like
I have
Your PDAs in Moira
In the cheaper laptop
But there are things
That I really
Really like
And I would be
Really upset
If they were not there
And I would imagine
In that space
There was tons of stuff
That the band
Sentimental
Yeah like
The guitars
From the first live shows
And stuff that they recorded
Albums with
You know
Anyway
I can totally get
To get that
Singles from the album
Got the time
Which was
I think the first one
In my world
Was the second
And then
Belly of the beast
Yes
I always thought
It was a really
Odd choice to do
Got the time first
It's not my
I like it
It's not my favourite
From that
And it was
In my world
That really hooked me
On this one
And I thought
It was absolutely
Mega
The album
The album itself
Changed in tone
So
Previously
There was a lot
Of humour
And comic book
Stuff
That they
Kind of
Connected to
This one
Wasn't
It was a lot
More mature
Later on
They would
Go and
And do
Like mashups
With rap bands
And other
Kind of stuff
As well
Yeah
Which
Yeah
I think
Yeah
They were never
Never shy to
Experiment
No
This one
So Persistence
Of Time
Was the last
Album
With Joey
Belladonna
Yeah
Before they
Went on
To have
John Bush
Belladonna
So they
Did an EP
In 91
After this
Called Attack
Of The Killer
Bees
And
Joey
Belladonna
Is on
Some of
Those tracks
But not all
Of them
Oh okay
And the split
Was pretty
Acrimonious
Apparently
He
Which is strange
That they got it
Back online then
In those early
20 cents
So yeah
92
He basically
Left and came
Back for
Worship music
In 2011
Yeah
And
From memory
It's not
I didn't put
On my fact sheet
But from memory
This was to do
With direction
Joey wanted to do
More thrashy stuff
And the band
Wanted to do
Different
Stuff
The
Sixth track
On the album
Intro to reality
Beecher's dialogue
From the
Twilight Zone
Oh it's the
Twilight Zone
Right right
Called Death's
Head Revisited
Keep it in the
Family and
In My World
And Belly of the
Beast
Were later
Rerecorded with
John Bush
And Rob
Caggiano
Who was the
New lead
Guitarist
After Dan Spitz
And it was
On an album
Called
The Greater
Of Two Evils
Which is quite
A cool record
Yeah
I quite like that
I'm not sure
I'd call it an album
There's lots of
Like
You know what I mean
It wasn't like
Lots of new stuff
Yeah
No
Yeah
But it's like
Reworkings
And
Yeah
It was quite cool
I remember
Listening to that
And it was
It was pretty
Wicked
Persistence of
Time
Highest position
On the
Billboard 200
So the US
Chart was
Number 24
Certified gold
By the RIAA
On January 17th
1991
They
Really toured
They rode this
Album quite hard
Yes
So I think
It had like
A run time
Of like
A year and a half
Where they were
Really actively
Promoting before
They dropped back
Into the studio
And figured out
What they were
Going to do next
Yeah
Which yeah
I thought was
It's an
Interesting one
I think it's
The first
Instrumental
Intro to reality
I think it's
The first
Instrumental
That the band
Did
I don't think
They'd ever
Done that before
Has a track
On there
H8 Red
Which obviously
Is hatred
Which we've
Talked about
That before
Japanese edition
Had bonus track
Protestants survive
Which was a
Discharge cover
Yeah
It had a track
Called discharge
And then it had
A backwards
Message quiz
Spoken by
Charlie Benante
Played in reverse
Set a quiz
Mentioned in the
Japanese language
Booklet removed
From 2007
And all future
Reprints of the
Japanese CD
So if you got
That it's uber
Rare and
You should keep
It and definitely
Not sell it on
Ebay
There's a thing
About Japanese
Imports
Doing different
Stuff on it
They always had
Like super cool
Stuff and it
Was always the
Japanese copy
That you would
Want as a fan
Yeah totally
I remember that
Yeah you would
Always be searching
For the Japanese
Versions
In the band
We've not talked
About that
So Joey
Balladonna
Lead vocals
Dan Spitz
Lead guitar
I think lovely
Lead guitar
Work on this
He also played
Rhythm on
Got the time
Right okay
On the recording
Scott Ian
Rhythm guitar
Backing vocals
Lead guitar
On intro to reality
Right that's him
Is it okay
Yeah he did lead
On got the time
Yeah okay
So they did a
Proper split on that one
Frank Bellow
Frank Bellow's got
Awesome hair
So shooting the band
I would always go
And make sure
I'd spend time
With Frank
And shoot
Because what he
Will do is
He's got really
Really long hair
And like bass
Guitar players
Are either really
Boring or epic
There's no middle
Band
And he's on the
He's like a
I don't know
He's like an
Orangutan
He's a huge
Monster of a man
And he kind of
Bounds around the
Stage
And his hair's
Everywhere
And he's just
So much fun to
Shoot
Some of my
Favourite shots
Of Frank Bellow
And Charlie Benante
Drums lead guitar
On intro to reality
He did the
Intro harmony
On that one
Which he did
With Scott
Which I think
Is really really
Cool
And we've talked
About the production
I'm going to go
Through it though
So Mark Dodson
Was producer
He did the
Track engineering
Steve Thompson
Michael Barbiero
Did the mixing
At Electric Lady
Greg Goldman
Brian Schubler
Marnie Bryant
And Ed
Correngo
Were assistant
Engineers
Bob Ludwig
Did the mastering
A master disc
In New York
John and
Marsha Zazula
Were executive
Producers
Don
Brotigam
Did the artwork
And Warring
Abbott
Did the photography
So super
Cool bunch of
People that were
Part of that
Anthrax tended
To stick with
A lot of the
Same people
As well
So they
Carried them
Through
And that's
It for facts
Good facts
They were
Good facts
This is a good
Album
I've got this
On CD
Still
My original
CD
Still works
It's a bit
Yellow
I don't know
Someone can
Write in and
Tell me
Why do CDs
Go yellow
Some of my
Some people
You show
Pictures of their
CDs from back
And they look
Brilliant
Mine don't
Mine look like
Some sort of
Oxidised thing
Is it something
Mine look like
They've spent time
On a 16 year
Old boy's
Bedroom floor
Which they
Had
See what you
Need is a
Wallet for
Your CDs
Oh I'm
Looking for
So as we
Move into
The future
I think
Next week
We should
Definitely go
And do
We should
Talk about
John Bush
Yep
Because
Sound of
White Noise
Is massive
It's epic
Sounds really
Cool
I bet you've
Never heard it
Have you
Sound of
White Noise
I think it's
Really
I tell a lie
I have heard
Bits of it
Because we did
It we've used
It on
Our previous
Incarnation
Oh yeah
We would have
Yeah there's
No it would have
We would have
Yeah definitely
Played it on
The Doghouse
Yeah
Really really
Cool
Then after that
We are going to
Dive into your
Wallet of dreams
So Chris has
Like a leatherette
Plastic wallet
Of 200
At least 200
CDs
I have to be
Honest if the
Police are listening
They're mostly
Copies
Backups
Chris should be
Arrested
Lars Ulrich is
Going to hunt you
Down
And like
I don't know
But he would
Not like that
No he wouldn't
Like that at all
He would be
Like
Do you remember
Someone sent me
A link this week
And I'd forgotten
About this
Pre-mp3s
Yes
They used to
To put this
Thing on the
Back of LPs
And it said
Taping is
Killing the
Music industry
And it was
It was me
Taping LPs
So you killed
Everything
I killed it
Yeah
But isn't it
Interesting
Is that that
Piracy is a crime
Is that like
Yeah
It's just like that
Yeah
And it would
There's like
A little
I'll see if I
Can find it
And send it
You later
But it's a
Little thing
On the back
Of vinyl
Records
Yeah
And it said
Taping is
Killing the
Music industry
Wow
And then they
Used a
Really similar
Thing for
The argument
Against Napster
And then
MP3s
And all of that
Stuff
Now
Everything's bad
The music industry
Is just dead
Isn't it
But it's
Interesting isn't it
I mean that was
Going back to
The 80s
Yes
Yeah
Mid 80s
Probably
Yeah isn't that
Interesting
Yeah it really is
So I'd
Totally forgotten
About that
But I'm
Going to go
I'll find it
And send it
To in a bit
Because it's
Quite a cool
Yeah yeah yeah
Cool thing
I looked on
Some of my
LPs
I don't think
Any of them
Have got it
No
Taping is
Killing the
Music industry
Yeah
There we go
What about
TV then
What about
VHS
Same thing
Yeah but
What about
What if you're
Going out though
Yeah to watch
That FBI
To watch
That FBI thing
Yeah
What the FBI
If I record
This the FBI
Are going to
Come to my
House
What
What's that
All about
Yeah but
If you
Let's say
You're going
Out
Yeah
And you want
To watch
Something
Yeah
You have to
Tape it
Yeah
And then watch
It later
If you could
Kids of today
Don't know
They don't know
That you know
When you were
Trying to work
The VCR
You might
VCRs might have
Been a bit more
Advanced when you
When you were
Because I'm
I remember
I remember the
Top loader ones
Do you
And they were
Indecipherable
You had to
You wanted to
Record something
You had to
Press play
Record and
Pause
In a particular
Order
And then you
Had to program
The thing
With the remote
On a cable
Or you had to
Go and press
The buttons on
There
And it was
Like
It was
Like going to
Space
You could have
Programmed something
To go to space
More easily
Than record something
But the buttons
Were clicky
Clicky clacky
Buttons
Clicky clacky
Buttons
Yeah
Unless it was
The Japanese
Ones often
Weren't
We had a
Grundig
Yeah
Which was
Very German
Very clunky
Yeah
I liked that
A lot
Yeah
But then we
Had a
Hitachi
One
Afterwards
Which my
Dad bought
And that
Had like
Like
A touch
Buttons
Yeah
I didn't
Like that
No
It was always
Broken as I
Remember as well
Yeah
That's because
It didn't have
The clicky clacky
Buttons
Yeah
The Grundig
Was alright
The Grundig
Was like
You know
You could have
Hidden behind
If like
A nuclear war
Broke out
That would
That would have
Absorbed all of
The nuclear
But uh
The Hitachi
One was less
Yeah
I felt really
Flimsy
Yeah
You know what
I mean
Like it was
About to break
Yeah
Had a
Better menu
As I remember
Yes
Much easier
To
Like to record
Something
Yeah
I always
I always remember
Trying to record
Stuff
Trying to record
Stuff
Like the next
Day
Yeah
So like if I
Wanted to record
Something now
Yeah
Today
That was
I got that
Figured out
But I used to
Often
Remember Tommy
Vance
He used to
Do a rock
Show
And I used to
Quite like that
So and it was
On at like
Two o'clock in the
Morning or three
O'clock in the
Morning something
Like that
Yeah
So I would
Often try and
Record that
And trying to
Tell my video
Recorder to
Record that
At three o'clock
In the morning
Just horrific
And I'd always
Wake up in the
Morning full of
Excitement
And found that
My dad had
Switched it off
Yeah
Do you know what
I mean
What have you
Done
And that's it
No getting back
You can't
That's it
Gone
No
No chance
Yeah
That was
I remember
Being dead
Excited
Because Cinderella
Had a new
Album
Yeah
And I knew
The album was
Out and I
Knew that no
One had got it
Like no one
Not my mates
Wouldn't have
Got a Cinderella
Yeah
But I really
Wanted it
And I knew
That they'd
Play it on the
Rock show
And my dad
Switched the
VCR
I'd be really
Grumpy
Did I ever tell you
The Queen
Video story
No
So my dad
Had a video
Of Queen's
Greatest flicks
So it was the
Greatest hits album
I thought you meant
The Queen
Oh no no
Not the Queen
Especially your dad
With his favourite
Collection of the Queen
You know
That was one
Yeah
And your dad
Going
This is the best
Me
Hello
What do you do
Have I not told you
This story
No
I've gone down
A rabbit hole
With your dad
And the Queen
So he had
The Queen
Greatest flicks
Which was in a
Burgundy purple
Reddy kind of
Colour case
VHS
Double one
So two
So two videos
It was greatest hits
It was like
The greatest hits
One and two albums
You know
So it was that
But it was the
Videos of them
So I used to
Watch it
Religiously
And I was like
Because I was
Getting into music
And I'd play
Beaming Rhapsody
And I'd pause it
And rewind it
And learn the solo
And all that sort of stuff
So that was that
So that happened
And then my favourite
Actually was
Greatest flicks too
Because I really like
I want it all
And all the latest stuff
So I really like
That kind of stuff
And so I used to
Watch that even more
And I watched it so much
That one day
I must have overheated
Or something
So it chewed the tape off
Of course
It's that noise
That noise
Yeah
It's like going down
A plug hole
And you're like
Oh no
And everything goes in
Slow motion
What you try and get
Yeah that's it
Yeah I tried to get it out
And I was ripping the tape out
Trying to like
Get it
And wind it back
It was all
That was dead
There was no chance
And because
The thing is
Because it was part of
A two tape set
Yeah
That it was like
This is the worst thing ever
Yeah
It's not like I just
Go and replace the set
I've got to buy both
Like the whole
The whole thing again
And it's not even mine
It's my dad's
And my dad loves Queen
And this is really bad
So I got really angry
Yeah
And I thought that
Like it'd be a redeeming thing
If I punched the video
Oh god
Only a teenager
It's like
I know what will fix this
Yeah
This will make it better
If I punched it
Because it did a bad thing
Yeah yeah yeah
So if I punch it
Yeah
Like
For a split second
I thought that's kind of
Redeemed the whole thing
And I've taken the thing out
It's all right dad
I've punched it
Yeah
So I smashed the video
Player to bits
Because I punched that
And the tape had run out
And then
And then I had to
Explain it to my dad
And in my brain
I was going
It's perfectly reasonable
He chewed the tape up
I was angry with it
So I smacked it
Can you imagine
You were a dad
He'd just like
Just like roll his eyes
And just like
Oh god
So angry
So not only have I got to
Replace my favourite
Queen video
I've got to replace
The whole video recorder
That's brilliant
Because of you
That's amazing
So yeah
And when he wasn't angry
He was just disappointed
Of course
Yeah
I bet your dad
Spent a lot of time
Disappointed
Yeah
Oh jeez
I do like your dad
Your dad's retired now
And he's properly
Yeah
Like
The last time I came in here
And he got
One of the loud hailers
Yeah
And he was working
In like an out building
From where we are
And he'd fixed
He works in a repair cafe
And he'd fixed this
Kind of loud hailer thing
Yeah
And then so he decided
To order his cup of tea
Over the loud hailer
From the
And he's just
I don't know
I so want to be
Retired
Yeah
He's properly got that
I don't care
Yeah
No he didn't give
He's not bothered at all
Not bothered
Just whatever
Just you know
And then
Somebody said something to him
Like you can't do that
And then he just carries on
Shouting through the loud hailer
And I just thought
Because I'm just such a hero
Just I want to
Do that
My thing is like
Because it annoys you sometimes
Because you know
Oh god
Could you just
Grow up
Yeah
You know
You become
That role
The parent role
And then you go
No because I'm going to be
And that's exactly
How I'm going to be
He's going to be
He's brilliant isn't he
I know
I love the way
He just winds people up
For like
It's like
Yeah I'm just going to
Carry on doing it
When we used to do
The repair cafe
He'd come in there
You'd come in like
Two minutes late
Yeah
And he'd say
Oh afternoon shifts here
Do you know what I mean
I think we've
I think as a
As a
As a species
We've lost the ability
To laugh at ourselves
Yeah
Haven't we
Yeah
It's everything so serious
Everyone's like
Trying
Like
It feels like people are
Trying to be offended
Yeah
Rather than like
You know
That's quite funny
Yeah
As offensive as you
You have been
Do you know what I mean
Yeah
Yeah I don't know
Yeah
World's lost its way
A little bit
Doesn't it
Everyone needs loud hailers
Yeah
Shouting at the world
That is the way forward
Fixed it
Do you know what I just
You just reminded me
Of the VCR
Yeah
Of going to car boots
I hate car boots
But we went to a car boot
And there was a man there
With a store
And he had
Like a hundred
VCRs
And they were five pounds each
Yeah
You can't find one now
No
Somebody was asking
For a
A VCR
If they could
Record
They've got a tape
And they wanted it
Digitised
Yeah
And it's much harder
Than you imagine
Yeah
To go and find
You know
Something that would do it
Well because if you think about it
Like back in the 2000s
We all had capture cards
And our PCs
And you know
So you plug it into that
Digitising VHS was easy
Yeah
But nowadays
It's USB
Finding a capture card
Finding the things
It's yeah
It's a pain in the bum
Yeah
But there you go
And tape
I
My music system at home
I've got my vinyl
I've got
My amplifier's got airplay
So I can play from Apple Music
And then
And then I've got my CD player
Yeah
But I've seen everyone get
Everyone's getting tape players
Yeah
Yeah yeah
It's the thing you get isn't it
I'm really obsessed with
Not
You know the
I had a Nakamichi
Yeah
And he's a really old
Nakamichi player
But a tape
Yeah
But you know what I really want
Is that you know
The big reel to reels
Yeah yeah yeah
I desperately want
A big reel to reel
I think that would be so epic
Yeah it'd be cool
Imagine the
Clicking and the
Whizzing
Oh the buttons on those things
Are amazing
Yeah they're like
Yeah yeah yeah yeah
I like all that
Yep
Yep definitely
I don't know
Can you buy music like that
Can you buy music on
I don't think so
I mean you'll probably find
Like the multi-track reels
Of stuff somewhere
Yeah
To play it to play back
You know
And she'll get through her desk
Or whatever
Ugh
Yeah
Ugh
Yeah we saw that
That'd be dead good
Yeah
If you've got one
Let me know if they're any good
Yeah yeah
Just come round
Yeah just come round
My youngest Barney is 11
And he's been out
He's been playing with
All the neighbours kids
All summer
Right
Because that's what
That's what they do
Sorry I'm just
I'm just readjusting myself
On my seat
But he's been out
Playing with all
The neighbours kids
And what I love about it
Is kids
They just give stuff away
Don't they
Yeah yeah yeah
You have that
Yeah Barney's just like
You know
Do you want my dad's car
And he just
Brings them in
And they just sit in the car
Or he goes in the garage
And like
We've got
There's like some
Bikes in there
Not being used
I just give them away to people
And I go in the garage
And go
Barney where's that
Oh I've given it to Dougie
Who's Dougie
Oh Dougie lives there
Oh right
Okay yeah
And then he'll go in
And like
He's been making
Formula One Lego
Yeah yeah yeah
And he comes in there
Can I swap this
Like Formula One Lego
For like a Smarty
Or
No
Yeah yeah
They're like so
I don't know
Yeah I remember that
I remember doing things like that
Like totally naive
Totally
Yeah yeah yeah
You know
And then
And then like
He came in with a switch
Yeah
And who's
Who's is that
Yeah
Oh it's
So just down the road
Swapped it for a miles bar
I'm borrowing it
Just take it back
Now
No I'm borrowing it
I'm allowed to
So you break everything
You've ever touched
Who's gonna
I'll replace it
Yeah
Barney you've got six pounds
In your account
Because you can't not buy things
But yeah it's been a bit mad that
But I
The naivety of it's been epic though
Yeah yeah yeah
Which is really really funny
Yeah
But that reminds me of being that age
Yeah yeah yeah
Swapping tapes and stuff
No absolutely
All of that
Yeah proper
Should we go
Are we done
Yeah
So we're done
Next week
We're gonna do
John Bush
Yeah
In
Sound of White Noise
I love it
It's got some of my favourite tracks on
I'm looking forward to it
I'm looking forward to you hearing it
Yeah
For the first time
Yes
All the way through
Because it's gonna be dead exciting
Yeah
And then I'm super
I'm looking at your
Your CDs
We can't open it until the day
No
And it's just dawned on me
We don't have a CD player in here either
No we don't
No
I
Hmm
I feel like we need a CD player
Yeah
There'll be one somewhere
Oh my god
I'm gonna buy one on eBay
I've got
I've got my
Do you know my
It took me so long to find a CD player
Yeah
It's really hard
Yeah
My CD player was made in
The year 1999
It's a Yamaha
Yeah
And my friend has a brand new CD player
Yeah
They don't sound the same
No
I know exactly what you mean
I don't mean that
And an audiophile-y
No
Oh I can hear a bit different
Yeah
Not that
They don't sound
You know when you put the CD in
Yeah
The tray
The way it goes in
The tray's supposed to have a noise
Yeah
And then it makes this
Yeah
And as it finds the thing
Yeah
The new ones don't make
The same noise
No
That's part of the ritual isn't it
Yeah
It's like a modem
You know when you dial the internet
Yeah
And it makes the
Yeah
So it's an expectation of that noise
The computer in pain noise
Yeah
It doesn't make the same noise
No
I don't know why
But if you want CDs
You want a CD player
Buy one on
Don't buy a new one
Yeah
Rubbish
Yeah
Buy an old one
Off it
It makes the right noise
It won't work very well
But it will make the noise
Gotta make the noise
Yeah
Hasn't it
And when you skip
Yeah
It's supposed to make a noise
It's supposed to make like a
A swirly swirly noise
Yeah
The swirly swirly noise
Yeah
Not just start playing
Like the uber efficient
No don't want that
No don't want the swirly
I don't want that at all
And they're all
Do you know my CD player's really heavy
Yeah
I say really heavy
It's heavy
Yeah
And the modern ones
Yeah
There's nothing
They're just
Yeah no it's got a bit of heft to it
Yeah
You should feel
Like my amplifier
It's like 20 kilograms
It weighs a tonne
And it's supposed to
Yeah yeah yeah
And speakers are supposed to be heavy
Yeah yeah
I don't like all this light stuff
No no
It's supposed to be big and heavy and
Yeah
Stuff
Yeah
Anyway
Yeah
Waffling again
Yeah
Let's do
Let's do this again
Yeah
Like same time
Yeah
But next week
Yay
Shall we do that
Let's do it
Same time next week
See you later bye
See you bye
Sorry
We're on the 29th street
On 11th avenue
To visit some friends of ours
Deli of the beast
That's what it's usually called
It's a place where some friends of ours hang out
And some ladies of the evening hang out
We're just going to have some fun
And see what we can do with it
We're just going to cruise back in a relax for a while
There's Charlie driving
So if he drives like a double bass drummer
Brake and foot
The only way
You walk this earth without a heart
You tear the innocent souls apart
You shuffle your conscience into the grave
You walk this earth without a heart
You're beautiful couldn't be taken
I'll tend to burn into your flesh
Your mind
Your voice
These are your heads to bring some mess
How did you dare to be so bold?
You only did as you were told
Marry your neck dancing in time
To be a violent dead incline
For all the monsters of our time
Marry my neck dancing in time
Always evil who will die in the name of who you'll find
A sea of souls dying for peace
Welcome to the valley of the beast
One mind, one voice
Welcome to the valley of the beast
Who hears your voice
Billion, never, never again
Magnet, never, never again
Monsters, dead, you can't die
Monsters, he's sat up to the noble state
The left hand, the hand, the right, the state
Driven so deep into the heart
It's killing love
It's killing faith
It's killing causes from the heart
What better wait to immortalize
When your own children are your spies
The things you trust are not the same
Trust in death
Trust in grief
Trust in hope
Trust in pain
Who is evil, who is mine
In the name of who you'll find
A sea of souls dying for peace
Welcome to the valley of the beast
One mind, one voice
Welcome to the valley of the beast
Who hears your voice
Billion, never, never again
Bandits, never, never again
Monsters, dead, you can't die
Monsters
We'll be right back.