we're riffology we're riffology and we do ginger you do this you do this we're doing ginger today
we're doing this i uh have a confession to make yeah this is early doors for confession mate it is
slightly isn't it um my confession is that i bought a wild hearts t-shirt before i'd ever heard the band
name three songs and you could yeah well it's a bit like you know um
like some some bands you like you you listen to the music and you're like that is that's i love
that music yeah so for me that would have been like uh slayer and metallica those kind of
early records and anthrax as well that kind of stuff that was that was i was kind of saying
that this i like this music right so like you know ride the lightning i had to ride the lightning
t-shirt i had you know i'm trying to think of other t-shirts that i had around this time but it would
have been like sepultura's beneath the remains yeah and and i bought those t-shirts and i kind of wanted
someone to come up to me and say oh that's such a great record yeah yeah yeah because i loved it
absolutely loved it and i was in loughborough with my friend and we were in a place called the left
legged pineapple and it's what it was not a real place it's a real place i promise you it's a real
place um ask ask i don't ask the google or whoever you ask it still exists whoever you ask for facts
it will tell you that it's a real place the what is it the left legged left legged pineapple yeah
no i promise you it's real but i'm gonna find i'm gonna find a picture of it to show chris in a
minute um and anyway i remember going there uh amanda who lived next door she was kind of she had
she was like proper like 80s big hair you know the 80s big kind of curly yeah you know she had that
uh and all the all the guys fancied her and she lived next door to me right she was older than i was
yeah and but um she had a reno 5 that broke all the time and i swear to god she only used to invite me to
take me to places in case the car broke down because i used to work on race cars and stuff with my dad and
she knew that i'd be able to find it anyway she saturday morning quite often we'd go to this place
called the left lego pineapple and that's how i discovered like tons of music right that's like
just being there she would she would go there to buy like skid row and stuff like that and i'd be like
you know buried in like weird the weird end of the spectrum really yeah and anyway i remember going in
and seeing this t-shirt for the wild hearts yes and i was just like i gotta have that yeah yeah yeah and
i i didn't there was just something about it there's something i just thought i i know they're
my kind of thing yeah never heard them yes and it was only when i got back and i wore the t-shirt i
bought the t-shirt for like a few weeks and my friend's younger brother came up to me said i love
that the only thing time it's ever happened i love that band they're amazing yeah have you got the new
album right and i was like no i haven't got it and was that this was that no this would have it would
have been uh fishing for luckies i think because they were it's easy to forget with the wild hearts
you think they've always been like mega successful but they like i i might be wrong but i think
fishing for luckies only went out over fanzines i don't think he had a proper release yeah i don't know
he had the tape and i borrowed the tape and i was like oh god i bloody love that it's absolutely
great and then like you know over the next few weeks then when we often got earth versus the wild
hearts and but they were like pretty underground they were not yeah you got you kind of knew
you needed to know people yeah you know they weren't it didn't land in the top 40 no first is the wild
hearts um it wasn't where we i remember going back to left legged pineapple and asking for it and the
dude was going what i'm not going to teach you got a t-shirt t-shirt i bought a t-shirt no idea no idea
yeah yeah and it was it it was like a um i don't know it felt like this like underground club yeah and
then it grew and it grew and it grew this goes deeper it's a community it's a family the wild hearts
much bigger than just a band or an album or something um the fact that we've we've come so
far that people have been so loyal right now is a very very special time thank you for sticking with
the wild hearts thank you for being part of this community it would literally be nothing without you
but it's it belongs to everyone it helps me as much as it helps anybody i love this family it's it's
the most the most special thing ever and uh i just thank you for being so patient and thank you for
being so loyal and i definitely will pay you all back double and and i think down that you know like
in the uk um uh so they're they're a cool band i think at this point yeah because it was down like
the east i think down the east coast yes yeah because they're northeast aren't they yeah so they're
from newcastle and then all the way down the east coast yeah like down to us in the midlands i kind
of nottingham way and that went yeah when it kind of comes down to where to where we are and ginger
often talks about rock city and nottingham as being his spiritual home and honestly and i'm
rabbiting a little bit here but um the i've seen lots of bands at rock city i mean hundreds of bands
live at rock city the wild hearts are still up there for me as being one of the most incredible
experiences to go and see just it's their fans it's ginger having this connection with with people and
still having that um i don't know you you can see it in his eyes i know this sounds really weird you
can see it in his eyes that he's really grateful that it's still a thing and that the wild hearts are
still a thing and people still turn up and people still sing it with him um you know it kind of
brought i remember i was at the back at the sound desk probably 2018 2019 and they do a song called
geordie in wonderland and um i shot the shot the show i got my camera was all good i could i could
quite often bands i'll i'll head off at that point so when i get stuck in the car park that's how rock
and roll i am well it's going a bit late i'll get stuck in the car park anyway i do see on the way
home yeah and you think i've seen lady gray off of empress gray empress gray empress gray what's it
like can we come back to that yeah okay yeah and then and then i'll i was sitting there by the
there's a sound desk and i'd seen them do this before but this is like the first time i kind of put
my i put my camera in my bag and you know my little notepad gone away and just listening to
like all of rock city singing geordie in wonderland and it's just this this moment they're a bit there
are bands that have these songs um like skunk and antsy with like head in his head you know there are
these i suppose like like oasis with wonderwall yeah i mean it's that kind of they're those songs
and for me that that experience of the wild hearts geordie in wonderland at rock city yeah it was just
like you know almost like a religious it's like it's just this this thing that kind of is it never
yeah yeah never leaves you know what i mean never never leaves you kind of it it's interesting you
speak about rock city you know because from the perspective of riding the low yeah we're talking
about this the other day we think that we played that venue the most of any venue we've ever played
yeah because you've played you've played the main you've played all of it you played the main stage
you played the downstairs you played probably played that you played everywhere yeah yeah just can't
keep it yeah but it but there is something about it it's funny you should say that that it's the sort
of the spiritual home the music thing and the thing the thing listening to the interviews with ginger
yeah is like uh it's gonna sound a weird thing to say but music to what music means to him is the
same as what music means to me go on you got to expand on that because you can see that it's more than
just what it is this is his this is his self-expression this is his art this is his
storytelling this is his poetry this is the thing that gives his life the most meaning and that grant
that gratitude for the ability to the ability to create music which transcends the self it transcends
the self when it allows for a connection with something bigger than yourself which is often the community
which is often the people which is often the audience which is often um that sort of thing
and i sit there and i can feel myself sort of tearing up because i'm going someone else gets that as well
yeah someone someone else understands that and someone else feels that like there's you know there's something
we're going through at the minute with with right about riding the low where we're kind of creating a
record and it's suddenly really starting to find itself and i'm going we're finally telling the story
we've been sat on this thing for probably a few years going it's not coming out yet it's not coming
out yet and now it's coming out and it's so it's so amazing it's a weird thing isn't it when you
i don't know you know when like bands take a change of direction and there's this um people take it
personally like like metallica did some anger and everyone was just like i don't like that and you know when
they did the black album yeah don't they why they have purposely ruined my enjoyment of do you know
what i mean and it is it feels like a purpose but but in reality it's just them like you say finding
that that's that new vision it's that that that thing that is the spark of where where where they are
and some bands just like prong just continue to point you know that they and and you know overkill
and i'm trying to think like motorhead there's a ton of bands out there that just
do the same thing and it's not that's just who they are and where they are and that's that's their
story um but you you don't have control over it you know like um i love watching you doing stuff
because you kind of go from this you know i'm not with the riding the low stuff you've been oh i'm
you know i've got this idea i've got that idea and then occasionally you'll just have this like
mega burst of it's it this is it i've got it i've got it i've got it and then you grab it and
run with it you know and then and then the thing appears you know yeah yeah yeah yeah and this is
why you know we have this conversation and i'm really against like remixing and remastering and
mucking about with stuff because this right in the low record that you're doing now right this will
be a mark in the sand like a recording in the universe about where you guys are as a band now and
how you're feeling now and the skills that you've got now and the things that are bothering you and
paddy will be you know writing the lyrics when a hotel somewhere in wherever right and they'll be
the stuff that's on his mind and the stuff that's bothering him now and you know and your production
and your the way you i guess you take those songs will be where you are now that's the bit for that's
the special bit that's what makes the album special not the dynamic range of it whether it was recorded
on vine do you know what i mean yeah none of that stuff is actually that important it's like where
where the people are and um you know that is the important bit for me that's the essence of that's
what makes a record yeah yeah yeah special yeah yeah i just it's such a strange thing i you know
listening to the songs and listening to the the wild heart songs because i didn't find i didn't i've
never i never found them if that makes any sense like they were they were always there yeah and they're
always the band that i loved i played you know i want to go where the people go they're quite a lot
i love singing it i love playing it it's such a fun song to sing and play and it's got a ton of backing
vocals it's got that kind of beach boys you think others if you want this album actually they're like
that as well you know you talked about the beach boys yeah they're beatlesy yeah they've got this
almost kind of like yeah there's such a weird vibe to to where the but i think it's because of the song
craft i think it's because i all all i get from it is is when i listen to it i i wish i could sit in a
room and have a couple of hours with ginger because i i'm sitting there going he he gets music like i get
music you know he he feels this in the same way that i feel it and the way that he's his compositional
thing you know he's he writes he crafts music he's not just whacking out riffs yeah yeah these
these songs are all composed they're all composed they're crafted they're like they're like he's
gone on a journey to make this right and he ties up loose ends and he puts little moments in and he
and he threads it all back and he makes it conceptual and he creates the story and he creates a narrative
and he creates the journey for the listener and that little bit where you'll throw in like a like
a four bar thing that someone else would be like that'd be that whole song you know they build a whole
song around that one thing it's like no you can have it four bars and then i'm off onto something else
but it's four bars of brilliance yeah that's the bit that always and you don't appreciate it really
when well i certainly didn't appreciate it and as you know as a kid listening to this stuff but now
you kind of realize like the the genius yeah yeah yeah that is that is the wild hearts and the the bit
that hit me i i guess recently was you know the the wild hearts essentially split up and it was just
ginger and then ginger built a new wild hearts right yeah yeah yeah and everyone's going well
you can't do that do you mean the wild hearts are the wild hearts you can't you can't just you know
you can't you can't just get rid of everybody and start again it's not going to be the wild hearts
yeah yeah yeah um what blew me away is that the latest wild hearts the satanic sites uh um rights of the
wild hearts sounds more like a wild hearts record than the last few have done yeah yeah yeah um yeah and
it's kind of gone back almost to that like raw or these first few records that kind of rawness and
that it's huge oh it's huge there's no sound like the wild hearts like the that that that real rich
thick i'm going to say marshall les paul because that's what it feels like to me i don't know if
that's what it is or not but this kind of like wall of amps you know big heavy humbucker guitars
smashing our punk stuff and just a thick a thick great thick wall of guitar and and
i don't know go just going back to the compositions you know i think the word i'm looking for is like
patterns he's creating patterns and shapes with song through through through song and and i just think
i said i just think that for me is like i i get i think i get this guy i think i know what i think
i know what he's doing here and i love it because i think that i have a very similar relationship
but don't you think like very few people can write songs like ginger does where you've got these
like you like you mentioned there are bits that i would refer to as like a twiddly bit right there'll
be a little tiny bit of a hint of a melody yeah and then the song will go somewhere else and then
it'll go somewhere else and then it'll go somewhere else and then it'll come back a little bit and pick
up one of the other melodies and then it'll go somewhere else then it'll pick up another bit of a
melody and then it'll kind of go down and end and there'll be bits in there that kind of come back and get
revisited and to kind of underpin the song there are bits that you never hear again you just get
the four four four bars off right um but the it's we you kind of think the first listen to you like
well where's this going oh where's it oh where's it going now the new record does it more yeah i think
than the previous few have yeah there's lots of bits on there but like they feel like short blasty
punk songs yeah and then there should be like two and a half minutes long no no but they're six
six minutes they're epic it's because you've been on this like yeah you've been but you're not but
you're not watching the clock you don't feel it no no yes the end of that you're like oh cool that was
that and then you go bloody hell that was six minutes it's it's insane it's mad it was renaissance
man that for me it was that what was the lead track of that there was diagnosis but there was
an i think it might have been diagnosis what was the other one shall i look for you sorry i'm i'm
i'm looking let me go and get but that did it and and and the thing about it is is is the sort of
gestalt i think there's the word for it where it's like a completed holistic kind of uh
like like hole if that makes any sense the hole yeah and by the time you get to the end of the song
you've got that balance you've got that sense of the hole there there's nothing that's even though
there's a little snippets and there's things that are done it always feels balanced though that's the
only way i can put it it's like everything balances itself out so by the time you get to the end of that
record like you know like a lot of these on here like um uh what was the what was the one that i
absolutely loved um tv tv tan tv tan like that is that is that is exactly it you know you've got this
six seven minute journey that you've been on and by the end of it you because he's led you all the way
through the composition by the time you get to the end of it you've cycled back around and it's kind of
filled the gestalt it's become whole if that makes any sense at all doesn't feel to me i'm with you
because they don't feel like they're not they're not like metallica right as an example metallica do
riff riff riff riff riff riff yeah there are sequences of riffs and they're great and they're brilliant and
they make you punch the air and they make you sing along there's something a bit more going on here
there's a pattern there's a there's a there's a sequence that's been very carefully crafted to take the
listener on a journey it's not just banger after banger after banger after banger it's been really
thought through that you like you know the energy that's in these if you took like most punk songs
and then ran them out to six minutes yeah you'd be like oh it's that's just you just played that twice
but you don't get that here you kind of get that where it's it changes it changes enough almost like a prog
that's a great a great yeah yeah it's not but there's nothing prog about it no but the
sense but the center yeah what's the word sentiment um that's not the right word can't
think of the word but the structure almost it's yeah there's something about this the the vibe of
it or the or the the approach the approach to creativity yeah is a little bit more fall
through the than the straight a b song structures uh the track you were thinking of off renaissance
men was dislocated dislocate oh my god you played it on the radio didn't you yes and you were
absolutely buzzing over this yeah that that came i was driving i'll tell you exactly where i was when i
heard it i was driving off the a38 uh into burton at clay mills and i was i was coming down that 40
road and i'd just come just come off and i was driving down that road and that came on and it was
on it must have been like probably radio too i can't remember it was one of the one of the
yeah i think radio one played it radio one i can't remember but but it was so it was so impactful for
me i had to pull over that was one of those albums where i was like ramming it down people's
throats you know and the satanic rights has been the same way yeah i'm so why have you not listened
to it yet yeah you're almost like you said that to me three i still haven't yeah i i'm going to now
because because of what we're doing here but yeah i i it's one of those where you kind of you literally
tell people you're like yeah have you listened to this album yet and they're like not yet yeah well
you should do now and then you're literally standing there staring at me like well why are you not doing
it now i mean what just stop what you're doing and listen to it right now i don't you know just do it
yeah why have you not done it yet you know that the the um yeah definitely renaissance men was like
that for me and satanic rights has been satanic rights for me it's one of the best albums that
that is up there as as as you know great i think earth versus the wild hearts is like it's one of my
all-time favorites yeah i'm i'm so like pleased that we're doing this kind of uk uh bit if you like on
these albums because they don't they didn't get the exposure that they should have done
um and it's just so cool to go back and um you know show them a little bit of love yeah um yeah
this one particularly uh and we talked about this in the past we've talked about thunder and we talked
about little angels yes and both of them being huge and those albums uh we talked about backstreet
symphony and young gods from little angels they for me they're they're incredible records and they
should have been massive and they weren't due to the like the us arms of the record company the dates
when they were released to that kind of you know 92 93 competing against you know the nirvanas and and
guns and roses and all of those kinds of things um this one's a little bit different right this one this
one is quite uh is is is quite fun i think but um so they were put out in the us on east west
and i'm sure when ginger listens to this he'll tell me that i've got this wrong but the what i read was
the east west with it with the us distributors and they refused to put it out because it was too punky
right and they didn't feel it was going to land yeah but then you had this massive burst of pop punk
in the us that was massive yeah if they'd have put this out it would sit with it wouldn't i reckon this
would sit alongside that because it's got that it's got the pop hooks it's got the anthemic kind of like
the blink 182 scream along yeah stuff you know the um yeah it's got that it's got that energy that the um
you know that kind of you know the offspring and it's got that kind of yeah yeah yeah energy behind
it um and there was clearly i think there was a bit of a there was a gap right you had the hair metal
scene that kind of miles away girl is that what it's called is there miles away girl is that i mean
that's that's one of those that that putting that alongside yeah you know those sort of tracks
because it's got a hook it's got a top line it's got a wicked hook to it that you'd have you'd have
50 000 people in the stadium singing along to you've got ever loan yeah yeah these are i mean these would
work in a stadium it's i mean there's seeing i mean honestly i feel like a sales rep but honestly if
you get the chance to go and see the wild hearts live just go and do it um they're they're just
incredibly anthemic and everybody around you will know all of the stuff people will have seen them
50 times or more um you know they'll they'll have seen them on this tour and every tour in between
and the the fan base is uh it's just i don't know i think it's just phenomenal yeah absolutely phenomenal
but um but yeah it's a shame because it didn't get put out in the us so it didn't catch the us
audience and then kind of stay and they stayed like a little bit localized they had a lot of support from
kerrang i think um uh ginger was good mates with the kerrang crew i think there was a lot of drinking
stuff happened with with uh ginger and the kerrang crew um so he got a lot of love from you not just
because of that i think there's a great record but you know that there was the relationship yeah ginger
was on side with them and it seems like a lot of um a lot of the the world around the success of the
wild horse is very relationship based well ginger's really nice he's a really likeable guy yeah yeah
yeah you know comes across really well in interviews and i know that he struggles and has struggled with
with drugs but with addiction in general with uh and with mental health and the impact of all of that
on him um but even like you know some people i guess when when when they're going through the the low
loads after you know and they're not mentally not in a in a good state um i think like you can see him
like ginger will sometimes come on social media and you can see him being really angry um and you can
kind you can kind of see the decline which i just think is it's such a sad thing it's almost like watching
it in slow motion because like when when when ginger's in a good state of mind you see him on social media
being kind to people and asking like you know these these like crazy questions or asking people to
recommend like you know b-movie horror b-movies and you know what i mean all this kind of somebody just
interacts with people in such a nice way and in interviews you know he comes across as kind of quite
thoughtful and quite kind um and then like any addict anybody who struggles with mental health you know when
when the world's not going your way it's easy to kind of get knocked off and and that's when you see
him being um not his best self you know that's when he struggles a little bit but yeah i think
he yeah he kind of comes back bigger and better than ever each time you know each time you see him
kind of get knocked off and struggle you you almost because it's kind of how you know i guess everything
happens in the public eye these days you see him kind of get back on the horse and get back
and pick himself back up when he comes back you'd have to be an idiot to count ginger out and you
whenever you see him and like with the recent band split and stuff he went through a rough patch i think
and he you know um a lot of people were pretty negative and then you see him pick himself back up and
just come back yeah like just yeah he's i mean he's inspirational i think not just from a being a
great songwriter but just i guess somebody who does struggle with addiction yeah he manages to cope
you know there was there's a beautiful interview that we've that we've that we've looked at and
you know the the manner the manner of love and respect in which he speaks to this this person who's
interviewing him yeah um you i'm well i'm looking at that again this is someone who understands the
darkness this is someone who understands the of the other side you know so so has to uh has to spread
the light has to past it has to be a channel for that light to come through because because he understands
the darkness he understands the other the other side of things and i think that's um i think it's really
telling i just spent the whole experience of this album and listening to it he was going i'd love to just
spend an hour a couple hours this guy and just talk you know it'd be uh it'd be interesting it'd
be interesting to sort of he's see what's what he's like almost like an ambassador for the counter
culture isn't he for that kind of under under culture the you know the the um the outsiders yeah you
know yeah um and i i think that comes across in the lyrics to me and i think this album so earth versus
the wild hearts there is this feeling of them being outsiders and not being accepted as tons of that
that in the lyrics i think and that's kind of what spoke to me hugely
so
what have i got to do what have i got to do to get next to you like a telephone call would do
what have i got to do to get the fire in my eyes to the fire in my eyes passes by
so
i'm
so
i'm
so
i'm
We'll be right back.
You know, I mean, then the song's flowing through that, that's up.
Ginger's the same.
Ginger's got this ability to, within very few words, it has this ability to paint a picture
in your mind.
Yeah, it's the total master of the craft.
It's the mastery of song.
It's extraordinary.
That's what that is.
It really is.
And then, but it does two things to me.
One, it kind of lodges that song in my brain.
And I want to go back and listen to it again.
Makes the lyrics easier to remember when I'm screaming along in my car.
It makes it, do you know what I mean?
It makes it easier to kind of remember what kind of what's happening.
But it's the choice of words as well.
You know, the word choice is just, I don't know, just inspired, you know, where another word
would do.
Yes.
But the choices he makes really do, you know, create that picture in your mind, that kind
of, that story creates that place where the story came from.
The other interesting thing about that parallel with, you know, Alanis Morissette and other
people like that.
Ginger's cringing now.
He's like, what?
What are you talking about?
He's just an idiot.
But it's the wisdom.
It's the wisdom of somebody so young.
You know, that kind of worldliness, that kind of.
Because she was, I mean, she was.
She was about 10.
Because she was, she was, yeah.
Because she was a pop star thing.
Yeah, she was a pop star before she did.
And then, then that happened.
Yeah.
Incredible, incredible thing that she did there.
I don't think Ginger was a pop star.
No, no, no.
I think, well, yeah, he's the quintessential rock star, isn't he?
He is, yeah.
He's incredible, but I don't know.
So there's, I don't know, there just seems to be another level of intelligence to the
guy.
That's all I can put it down to.
He's someone who's tuned in to something else, something a little bit different.
That's what I get.
Yeah, no, I am with you.
Shall we do some facts?
Yes.
I've got some facts.
So I'll look at, I'm looking on our blog, Riffology.co, if anybody cares.
We get a lot of love.
I have to say, you know, that like people listen to the podcast, like, because you've, you've,
you know, got some stats and the different number.
You like that stuff.
Yeah, I like charts.
And I sort of looked at the numbers and looked at them for a bit and I was going, crikey.
This is, this is being really listened to.
That's so cool.
Yeah.
It's just me.
I'm listening to it over and over again.
You got it on loop.
Yeah.
Just listening to myself over and over again.
So released in August, 1993, 49 minutes long, 11 tracks, 12 on the reissue, which was Caffeine
Bomb.
Oh, right.
Didn't get released here.
I look back at my version and my version has Caffeine Bomb on it.
Okay.
So you've got the reissue one.
Mine was the reissue.
How do you feel about reissues?
Don't like them.
No, that's not true at all.
So Friends of ours, the Struts, they reissued their first record 80 times.
Yeah.
Because it just, it was weird.
It just like didn't seem to catch.
It was like they did it.
And we were like, oh, this is the biggest record ever.
Yeah.
And no one cared.
Yeah.
And then I remember I was writing for Louder Than War at the time.
And I sent the link to the record off and said, I want to do a, I want to do a thing
for this.
And they're playing up the road and they were like, I don't really care.
And then what was fascinating is like three or four years later, they'd reissued that.
They'd done the second record.
They'd been out on tour with the Foo Fighters.
And then they came back and the head of photography at Louder Than War told, I said, oh, I'm going
to go and cover this.
And she was like, no, I'm covering that.
She took it off me.
So reissues are all right.
And I think.
As long as I don't play with the dynamic level.
And also like, I kind of get this, right?
Because the singles did quite well.
Then they reissued to kind of go and get, hey, you know, that point in time, I guess it was
kind of encouraged record shops to go and put it in, you know, and put it in the windows
a bit more and stuff.
But like Linkin Park are just doing this with a deluxe version.
So they've got From Zero, which is a great record.
They're kind of back.
It's got Emily on vocals.
And she's awesome.
They've come back really strong.
Great record.
Really cool.
Released it.
And then now they're doing like this deluxe version with another four songs.
Yeah.
No, don't do that.
Give me an EP.
Don't reissue that.
They're just doing it to sell more vinyl and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right.
I mean, it just, it's so frustrating that could have been, you know, or do, you know, but it
should have, I think it should have just been an EP.
Yeah.
I don't want, I don't want, I don't, I don't want to, I don't need that.
Anyway, but this one was reissued.
I think because that's the way things were at the time.
And I think it was to try and get it into the charts a little bit because they got a little
bit of, you know, a little bit more of a following and they put Caffeine Bomb.
I think Caffeine Bomb had done really well in the live show.
So I think they decided to.
Right.
So that, okay.
So that kind of fell in.
And yeah, I suppose, I think it's at the time where the technology and the way the records
were made and they were distributed.
Yeah.
It's not as easy as just chucking somebody up on Spotify, is it?
No.
And I think that first run would have been tiny.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
It was 93.
So that would have been, I mean, that would have been on CD mostly, I would imagine.
But I wouldn't have imagined they'd have passed like a million of them.
Do you know what I mean?
They would have been a fairly tiny run, I should imagine.
So I get it.
I get reissuing that one back in the day.
So that's okay.
They get a pass for that one.
Recorded in Wessex and Mayfair Studios in London.
Well, I'll come on to it a little bit, but Ginger had a flat in London.
Yes.
Which is where Schittsville came from.
But we'll talk about that.
Yeah.
We'll talk about that in a minute.
Kerrang! named this album the album of the year.
In 2006, they ranked it number 20 in their best rock albums special.
Of all time?
Yeah.
Wow.
I think that's interesting, isn't it?
There's a lovely quote from Ginger saying that the best songs come from frustration and
anger, not happiness.
And I think Renaissance Men came from that a little bit.
And clearly this came from that as well.
It's having something to say, isn't it?
Yeah.
We talked about this a few times.
I think debuts in general work well because you've got, let's say you're 20, you've had
like 20 years to get pissed off about stuff and you've got stuff to talk about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then you've unleashed it on everybody.
Versus the world.
That's it.
Yeah.
And then the second album comes around and you're like, well, I've already, do you know
what I mean?
I've only had now like 18 months to get annoyed about things.
I don't.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not.
I've only got a smaller number of things that annoy me now to write about.
Um, uh, the lineup in, oh, so I was going to talk about, yeah, 93.
Um, yeah, it was, it was, uh, you know, Grunge was in full swing.
This was in the rest of the world.
Yeah.
Um, you know, Grunge was all over and kind of alt rock and even the Seattle scene and all
of that stuff was just massive.
Um, and a bit of like metal.
There was, there was that sort of metal thing happening, wasn't there?
Yeah, it was.
But the commercial, like the commercially sort of like, like the, what I'm trying to say
is more, more heavy rock than shout, shout, you know, like, so the Pantera, the Metallica,
the Sepulchorchrist in degree.
Anthrax, which Anthrax did Sound of White Noise in 93 as well.
So yeah, it was, there was some big, it was the big, heavy radio friendly.
Yeah.
It wasn't the stabby thrash of the late 80s.
No, that's what I'm trying, yeah, yeah.
It was kind of this big, thick, you know, black album.
And it was, and it would have been just before the big pop punk push, wouldn't it?
Yeah.
Rancid would have been knocking about, no effects, we've been doing some bits.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it was the pre, the early 80s.
It was just before the-
That's why I don't get that the US guys didn't-
Didn't get it, yeah, yeah.
Because this, I think this would have caught on with the US pop punk stuff.
I think it would have gone, I think this would have flown off the shelves.
I think it's got too many chords in it.
Honestly, I think if this, if this had been pushed in the US,
we'd have been talking about this in a different way.
You know, like Bush just took off in the US.
Yeah, not as many chords in Bush songs, you're saying.
Well, you know, I think we should do a Bush album next.
Anyway, core lineup was Ginger, CJ on guitar and vocals,
Danny McCormack and Stiddy on drums.
Ginger was in a band before the Wild Hearts.
Do you know what it was?
No.
It was the Choir Boys.
Oh, really?
Yeah, and he was kicked out because he was too rock and roll.
Yeah, because that doesn't work for me.
What?
Those two things don't connect.
Yeah, what a great, like, you know, on your resume,
for being kicked out of the Choir Boys for being too rock and roll.
I love it.
I just think that's absolutely excellent.
I asked the AI to describe the Wild Hearts,
and it said it's a combination of the tunefulness of the Beatles
with the muscle of Metallica.
That's interesting, isn't it?
I thought, yeah, it's not going to take over the world just yet, is it?
Financing was by East West Records, but they didn't give them a great deal of money,
I don't think.
I'm not convinced they thought that the Wild Hearts were going to make them tons of cash
and how wrong they were.
If they'd have put, if they'd, this album, if any, if you could go and beat a record company,
this is one that you would go and, do you know what I mean?
You're like, just, dickheads.
Anyway.
Then there's a quote from Ginger saying,
he wrote, greetings from Schittsville, Miles Away Girl, Anita Nitro, in 24 hours.
And he recalls living in a cockroach infested flat in Hampstead, struggling to get by.
The album's title, inspired by B-movie classics like Earth vs. the Flying Saucers
and all those kinds of things, it was kind of reflecting their underdog spirit.
You know, it was a great fear of mine to continue the band
because the other guys didn't want to do it or couldn't do it.
Or one of them is retired now.
And it was a big fear of mine.
But I like tackling my fears.
But this was a big one.
And now I just feel very proud that I've made so much improvement on myself
and improvement on my place in the world, what I'm worth, at least in my opinion.
And then for this album to come out and for people to be saying so many positive things about it,
it kind of, it's worth all of the hard work to do this.
So my fears were unfounded.
There was no, there's no need for anyone to have any fear
because fear is, you know, it's based on something that hasn't happened.
It's based on something, it's your imagination put into the future.
You know, when you're doing something, when you're in the moment, there is no fear.
There's just the doing of something.
So I've done a lot of practice over the last year of living in the moment.
And it really is serving me well now.
All of my fears, I'm just bashing them down like dominoes.
And it's a great feeling.
So, yeah, I think right now I'm as proud as I've ever been.
There were other people on this record other than the band.
Yeah, you mentioned Mick Ronson.
Yeah, so Mick Ronson.
This was Mick Ronson's last ever studio appearance.
Wow.
Before he died in April 93.
He does the guitar solo on My Baby Is A Headfuck.
I think he does more than the solo.
He does quite a lot of cool stuff on there.
Obviously, Mick Ronson, famous for David Bowie's guitarist.
Willie Dowling does piano.
Sarah Smith does.
That piano, piano playing's awesome.
It's cool, isn't it?
It's so cool.
It's that proper, like, rock and roll-y kind of,
almost like the hootenanny kind of approach.
There's like a swagger to it, isn't there?
Jules Holland's sort of way you play.
Yeah, there's like a...
Boogie Woogie, that's the word.
Yeah, kind of an upbeat.
Sarah Smith did saxophone on Greetings from Shitsville
and Stevie Land did backing vocals on Love Shit as well.
Recording process for this one.
It was done, talks about before, it was done in 1-6.
It's very well recorded.
It is.
It's very analog-y, isn't it?
Although it kind of, my guess is it kind of went from there to CD,
to compact disc and that.
This would have been, well, I think this was probably done on analog.
And it's interesting as well that, and then there's a clip
that we've got of Ginger talking about missing the analog.
But it's not necessarily missing, like, the sound.
Yeah.
It's the experience of it.
It's the experience of using a big desk and being in a studio
with a big desk and seeing people with, you know,
analog-y things rather than the analog-y thing itself.
And the performance process of the mix.
Yeah.
So very much now it's almost like, you're like programming a song almost
on a computer, whereas back then you would have had to ride the faders.
You would have had to do things manually.
Yeah.
I think it's, yeah, it's nostalgia, isn't it?
But it's nostalgia.
You could have nostalgia without wanting the inconvenience.
Do I miss the big desks?
Of course I do.
I remember the days when, you know, everyone would be racking out the coke
on the desk and, you know, people would be falling asleep drunk
and you'd have to mix around them.
I remember when you'd be doing a final mix and everybody would be on the board.
The guitar player would be controlling the solo.
You'd be basically playing the song in the mixing process.
And then finally someone would be in charge of the fade-out.
I remember so many times they'd do the fade-out wrong.
You had to start again.
Of course I remember that.
But, you know, probably people remember horses were better than cars.
No, digital has made it much better for everyone.
You know, everyone can get involved now.
People can make records in the bedroom.
I mean, you know, the whole thing now is what's the music like?
You know, what do you want to say?
Not like, you know, how big a studio, how many tracks did you use?
It's irrelevant now.
But, yeah, I'm from an old school background.
I miss analogue.
I miss being impressed by people.
Because, you know, computers do a lot of the work now.
You know, you push something in.
You can see that the guy just knows the right plug-in to use.
But it's not real time-honed skill.
Like cutting a tape, editing on tape.
I used to watch these guys taking my album and slicing it with a razor blade.
And these guys are invariably drunk and pretty high.
And they'd be slicing it and then putting it together.
And it was seamless.
That is a skill that, you know, a lot of people don't really need to have skills of that level anymore.
But, you know, again, for me, it's always been about the music, you know.
So how you record it, you know, in a few years' time, I might be able to just go from my head to your ears.
And that'll be cool.
You know, how's the song?
I hear about a lot of people spending a fortune on doing it on analogue.
It seems people spend a fortune on making a film on Super 8 or 16 mil to give it a look.
It's still a shitty film, you know.
And then someone makes Blair Witch on a fucking potato.
And it's fucking, it's amazing.
So, you know, again, it's all about the content.
But, you know, if you're a rich guy and you want to tell everyone, hey, we went old school on this one.
Yeah, for half a million, you can record your album on fucking analogue.
See, I remember old car, I remember loving old, it wouldn't have been old cars at the time.
Yeah, there would have been, like, cool cars.
I loved the Astra GTE and we had the Cavalier GTE, the GSI as well.
We had some lovely, lovely kind of cool cars.
I'm not sure I'd want to go back and have one now.
Do you know what I mean?
I want a heater that works and I want my heated seat and I want a nice stereo and stuff.
But you could have the nostalgia without necessarily wanting to go back to it.
So, I think that's interesting.
Production duties were split.
Wild Hearts did a ton of production themselves.
They had Mike Drake co-producing and mixing Mark Dodson.
It feels like Ginger's vision.
This is, but this band and this sound is Ginger's vision.
So, I think it would be hard to produce that when you've got somebody who's so headstrong.
I mean, there were rumours that the demos, they recorded the demos and there were rumours
where they were so good that they just used them.
Yeah, yeah.
They'd sort of like, that's good.
You know, that's great.
There's no point doing that 15 takes and how they think it goes.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away, my cartoon highlands, and my skin is sickly gray.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away, my body's taking away, my body's taking away.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away, my body's taking away.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away, my body's taking away, my body's taking away.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away, my body's taking away.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away, my body's taking away, my body's taking away.
I'm living on a landmine, my body's taking away, my body's taking away.
I'm working on my 3D TV's and...
So, so, Kale!
I need an idea show.
So, so, Kale!
It's just a part of the plan.
So, so, Kale!
There's only me in my TV's and...
Someday maybe I'll call you.
I'll see whenever I'm free.
Maybe Tuesday...
When there's nothing on TV.
20 Regal in a four pack.
I guess I'm set for the night.
And he's so sure.
They're keeping shape, thin and white.
I like smoking in between jokes.
Kiss off the TV guy.
The Bible for the play who stays inside.
And I see no sun.
I see no light beyond my watch and mind.
I need no fun.
I need no time to find a new design.
Move along.
I'm working on my 3D TV town.
So, so, Kale!
I need another show.
So, so, Kale!
It's just a part of the plan.
So, so, Kale!
There's only me in my TV town.
TV town.
TV 10, TV 10.
Feeling I'm in it, and insanely grinning.
Air force peering out of my TV.
Try hard to be funny.
Unfortunate for me, they start to entertain me.
I'm living on a landmine, the kind that never ignites.
And I'm here waiting, here for nothing.
I see no sun, I see no light, beyond my watch and mind.
I need no thought, I need no time to find the new design.
Move along, I'm working on my 3D TV 10.
So, so chaos, I need another show.
So, so chaos, it's just a part of the plan.
So, so chaos, there's only me and my TV 10.
Mark Dodson did Sucker Punch, and Simon Effemy produced Caffeine Bomb.
Ted Jensen was the mastering engineer, so he did the kind of, the final master.
Mark Dodson did Sound of White Noise as well, from Off of Anthrax.
And I like that.
I kind of, I've got this urge to go back and do more of that kind of US.
Yes.
Big, thick, heavy stuff at some point.
I quite like that idea.
Because we didn't quite dive into Bay Area, did we?
No, the Bay Area was the thrash stuff.
But you know, you were talking about that kind of 90s, the 90s, where 90s heavy metal went.
Yeah.
You know, that kind of the black, what happened after the Black Album.
Yeah, okay.
So everybody went like, Slayer did South of Heaven and Seasons in the Abyss.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Singy, more singy-songy.
Yeah, you had like Megadeth eventually kind of get into Risk.
And then did like, you know, they were doing a whole bunch of kind of big, thick, heavy rock albums.
And you know, Metallica were doing Load and Reload.
I don't know, Anthrax did, you know, Sound of White Noise.
I'm probably missing a hundred, but yeah, like you're talking about Pantera.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's just this massive glut of like, just riffy, radio-friendly riffy stuff.
It's stuff that was being played all over the radio in the US.
Yeah, yeah.
I have a bit of a calling to go and do some of that later on in the year.
So when Earth vs. the Wild Hearts arrived in August 93, it landed just outside the top 40.
It peaked at 46.
So I think that's really interesting.
It just did not, it didn't land as well as you might hope.
Yeah.
And then as it went, as they went through.
So they did Fuck After This in 95.
Yeah.
Then they did Fishing for Luckies in 96.
I think, I might be wrong with this.
I think Fishing for Luckies was the one that came out on like their fanzine.
Right, right, right.
I think it got released later.
Then they did Endless Nameless, which has like a really, I think that's the one with a really harsh production.
It's got like a weird, bit like St. Anger.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
And it's got this kind of really, yeah, lots of people, turned a lot of people off, I think.
And then they came out with The Wild Hearts Must Be Destroyed and a bunch of other stuff.
And yeah, pretty, pretty excellent.
Other records in 93.
This is going to impress you.
In Utero by Nirvana.
Siamese Dream.
Yes.
By The Pumpkins.
One of the greatest albums ever made.
One of?
Yeah.
And then, how long?
The greatest one's Melancholy.
How long is it?
I love the Smashing Pumpkins, but their albums are too long.
No, they're not.
They're too long for me.
If I can't count them on my hands, I'll lose track of what I am.
All albums should be double albums.
That's it.
Usually that's what your toes are for.
First is by Pearl Jam.
Get a Grip by Aerosmith.
Songs of Faith and Devotion by Depeche Mode.
Sound of White Noise by Anthrax we talked about.
Rid of Me by PJ Harvey.
Pork Soda by Primus.
Republic by New Order.
Bat Out of Hell 2.
Wow.
See, now, here's something interesting.
So, at the time, I would have been at 11.
Yeah.
Because I was born in '82.
That's the right math, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I wasn't yet into this music.
Yeah, you came back to this music.
Yeah, I found, I discovered all this sort of stuff later.
So, at the time, I was obsessed with Bat Out of Hell 2.
Oh!
Upon release.
That was what I was listening to.
I was listening to Bon Jovi.
Yeah.
I was listening to Bat Out of Hell 2.
Like, constantly.
In fact, Meatloaf was first, actually.
So, I would have been, yeah, I would have moved from Meatloaf onto Bon Jovi.
Nice.
And then back round to discover all this sort of other stuff.
Again, I remember my cousin having that Bat Out of Hell 2.
He had a mini Metro.
And he played it, like, wherever he went.
And it's funny because the Pumpkins, who were, like, obviously my all-time favourite band in the world ever.
Yeah.
And the only band that really matter.
I didn't discover them until much, much later.
So, way after.
Yeah.
So, like, between, well, around when A Door came out.
Right.
Around when A Door came out.
Right, right, right, right, right.
Slightly after that.
Yeah.
I went and found...
Everything else.
Everything else first.
Yeah.
And then A Door came out.
Yeah.
And then that was it.
I was like, I was hooked.
That was it.
That's, yeah, I think.
I don't know.
I think that happens with a lot of albums though, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You kind of find them when you're discovering music and then you go back, so.
Yeah.
To the point where when someone showed me Melancholy around when it came out.
Yeah.
I was like, I don't like, this is just noisy.
I don't like it.
Because I like really commercial, like, poppy stuff, you know.
Yeah.
So, it's interesting, isn't it?
It's interesting.
Yeah.
Singles from this album.
Greetings from Schittsville, which is about Ginger's flat.
We talked about TV Tan, which is about escaping into 90s TV.
For me, that's the song of the album.
That's the Wild Hearts in a kind of nutshell.
See, for me, it's Avalone.
But it wasn't released as a single.
Yeah, that's good as well.
And I really like Avalone in the live show.
And then My Baby is a Headfuck.
And then Sucker Punch.
Sucker Punch, 2 minutes 59.
Yeah.
That's what you like, isn't it?
Short, shouty songs.
That's what I absolutely bloody love.
I think they're brilliant.
What else did I want to get on to?
Yeah, touring.
So, they toured, like, relentlessly.
They're a live band for me, the Wild Hearts.
And if you do see them live, buy a T-shirt, because they're brilliant.
And it helps the band a lot.
They toured with The Almighty, who we covered.
We did Soul Destruction.
I think another British album that should have been much bigger than it was.
Opened for Alice in Chains at Brixton Academy as well in '93.
You know, so they were out doing all kinds of stuff.
There's a note here, and I don't know whether this is true.
So, Ginger, when you're listening, you have to tell us if this is true.
But it says, "In 1993, the Wild Hearts played dozens of shows across the UK and Europe.
Notably, they were kicked off Izzy Stradlin's tour."
Oh, really?
After one night, reportedly due to a backstage row.
Oh, no!
Drunken ginger-punching people, I think.
And Izzy Stradlin was renowned for being sober and straight, so that's, you know...
Just imagine that being pretty chaotic.
They also supported Steve Vai.
Oh, wow. That's interesting.
And then that was where Ginger, I think where Ginger met Devin Townsend.
Right, okay.
'Cause Devin Townsend's a big, he's a big supporter of you.
I was gonna say, I can imagine those guys really getting on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Devin Townsend's another guy.
I interviewed him once, and he was just...
He's one of those guys you could just speak to for hours.
And you know they're doing media back-to-back.
Right, so you know that you're in a stack of, you know, bullshit for them to do in a day.
And it's sort of like, Devo is just like, you know, he just doesn't want to finish.
I mean, he's kind of talking to you as if you're...
But you're down at the pub.
Yeah, yeah.
And I don't know, it's just epic.
Really epic.
Always forget, like Devo's brilliant.
Forgets why he's there.
Yeah.
Forgets what he's selling.
Yeah.
Forgets the album that he's talking about.
Yeah, yeah.
It just goes off on this kind of random thing.
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
Talking about, you know...
I was chatting to him about recording with Steve Vai.
Mmm.
And him saying that when you've been in a recording studio with Steve Vai, you no longer want to be a guitar shredder.
Yeah.
You just don't want to do that.
And you...
And he said, for me, I wanted to be a guitar shredder.
And then I was in the studio with Steve Vai and all of a sudden I'm like, I just, there's no...
Yeah.
But the gap, the gap from...
Like, it's not like I can go and play and practice and get better.
So that the gap is too big, right?
If I practice for my entire life, I might be able to imitate a little bit of what Steve Vai is doing here.
Just wandering in and, you know, warming up, right?
Yeah.
And so...
But then realizing that I didn't want to...
You know, actually there were other things that I could do.
Yeah, yeah.
And other people were doing that I needed to find what I was good at.
Yeah, yeah.
He's another person actually.
You don't talk about that gestalt, is that the right word?
The balance, the bar.
Yeah, yeah.
Kind of harmony when it finishes and it feels complete.
Feels right.
Feels right, feels done.
Yeah, yeah.
Feels like a completed thing.
He...
Devin Townsend does that as well, brilliantly.
He's brilliant.
He's very funny.
He's very...
Ginger's quite dark.
Dark sense of him as well, I think.
And anyway, Devo is as well.
They also toured...
The Wild Tiles also toured with Therapy, Little Angels, Thunder...
All of those, all of these British bands ended up on each other's gigs, I think.
Five things that you might not know.
Mick Ronson's last recorded solo.
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Was on My Baby's A Headfuck.
The album cover is real.
Oh.
So it's not Photoshopped.
So Ginger posed in an oil bath wrapped in barbed wire with a cockroach.
And yeah, it was a genuine, real, real thing.
So again, Ginger will say, no, it wasn't.
It was all done in Photoshop.
But yeah, apparently that was all real.
And it was in like a bath of oil, which is a bit bonkers.
East West considered dropping the Wild Hearts before the album came out, citing their two-punk sound and chaotic behavior.
I'm quite glad them picking that up.
And then, oh yeah, because of label disputes, then Fishing for Luckies was released by mail order to fans.
Oh, so there we go.
That's where that came from.
Critics, again, the critics really mixed.
So Collector's Guide to Heavy Metal gave it nine out of ten.
Karangd called it the best album of 1993.
Select Magazine gave it two out of five.
And I shall not repeat the words they used about it, but they're idiots and they were wrong.
Oh, after this album, they released Fuck in 1995, which reached number six.
Right.
So I think this is the better record.
Which one I want to go with?
Which one?
Was that Fuck?
Oh, I'm going to have to go and look now.
You're going to.
Because that was the one for me.
That felt like a real line in the sand, that song.
That was like a, you know, because they've always had that ability to write incredibly catchy, hooky kind of things.
I want to go where the people go, V-Day, Justin Lust, Baby Strange, Nita Nitro.
Yeah.
That was that.
Be my drug.
Because that was the one where I thought they've cracked this.
That's just great.
Sick of Drugs is on there as well.
Yeah.
That one was pretty, pretty epic, I think.
Yeah.
And then.
Yeah.
So then you got Fishing for Luckies with Inglorious.
If Life is Like a Love Bank, I want an overdraft.
Schizophonic, Do the Channel Bop.
Geordie and Wonderland's on there.
Sky Babies.
Sick of Drugs is on there as well.
That one's phenomenal.
And for all of those first kind of four, four records for me.
Yeah.
Those.
Well, certainly the first three Earth verses, fucking Fishing for Luckies.
I'm going to listen to Dislocated Later.
Oh, it's such a good.
Yeah.
The thing is with the Wild Hearts.
I start and I just immediately go, oh, this is.
And then I'm just, I'm in and I'm listening to them then for, and then they'll become like
all I listen to for, you know, weeks.
Yeah.
Really.
Yeah.
They're a band that do that to me.
Do you know what they are?
For a band that sing about bad stuff and pain and misery and stuff sometimes, they pick me up.
Do you know what I mean?
Like if I'm having a tough time, I know if I put on any Wild Hearts record, I will feel better.
I'll feel more capable of facing the world after listening to a Wild Hearts record.
That's so interesting.
Yeah.
And like, but like Alice in Chains, for example, is a bit the opposite.
Yeah.
Or I'm trying to think of other bands.
Well, like you're feeling too happy.
Yeah.
I feel like I'm too happy now when I put Alice in Chains on.
Yeah.
Just to balance it out of it.
Yeah.
I used to have this joke where there was two movies that, you know, there's like Ali G,
like the Ali G movies and stuff.
Yeah.
Um, and if I watched those, I'd get a little bit like the Ali G happy, you know, you kind
of get a bit and then, and then to come down, I used to go and watch the Green Mile.
So there you go.
There you go.
That's how that works.
The ups and downs of film.
Yeah.
It is.
It's fantastic.
Uh, and I think that's the end of my facts.
Is that the end of my facts?
Um, uh, uh, oh, uh, yeah.
Uh, yeah.
So, uh, I just want to talk about the, the new lineup.
So the, uh, the, the, the, who is it now?
The new line of any of the older people, ginger, John Paul, Ben Marsden, Pontus snib.
Uh, that is the new wild hearts.
And it's fascinating for me.
They sound like the old heart.
Like this.
Yeah.
They don't sound like Renaissance men.
No.
It sounds like earth first is in fishing for luckies.
I know.
It's, that's what it sounds like to me.
It's got, it's got that, that, um, and I think it's because the other lads in the band
are kids.
They're kids.
That's really rude, isn't it?
Then they're not as old as miserable as ginger is.
And I, do you know, I swear that what's happened is he's put a younger band together.
Yeah.
And they're bound.
They're like puppies.
They're full of energy.
You know what I mean?
And that's the thing that's brought ginger into this, like, oh, you know what I mean?
The energy is there and that, you know, it's not the misery of people.
You know, if you go into an environment where everyone's worked together for like 20 years
and it's just misery.
Yeah.
The old coffee machine was better this year.
Do you know what I mean?
It's all a little bit miserable, isn't it?
Whereas if you go into a, like where it, uh, it's kind of new and everyone's kind of getting
to know each other or the younger people are there.
Yeah.
You don't get it.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Everyone's a little bit excited.
Oh, there is a coffee machine.
That's great.
You know what I mean?
It's all exciting.
Yeah.
I just have this funny feeling and you can, I can kind of hear that.
That's what I get from the new wild hearts record.
Mike's is that they, there's this energy.
There's this kind of rejuvenated, like, I dunno, like vigor in them.
Yeah.
And I swear that's from the influence of the other, other people in the band.
Yeah.
You know?
I'll tell you what I love about, about the wild hearts.
More, more like a real stunt out thing for me.
Yeah.
Obviously I've gushed about the, the composition and the create, you know, the creation of songs
and the sort of the craft of that.
Yeah.
Is his voice.
Yeah.
I think he's got the most incredible voice.
It's so present and, and there and everything about it is just, you know, that guy's got something
to say and he's saying it through, through singing.
You know?
Um, and I'm, again, I might have this wrong cause it's not, it's not in my notes.
And so I might've been misremembering this, but I don't think ginger wanted to be the front
man.
Particularly to James Hetfield and Metallica.
Yeah.
It's kind of like, well, I'll do it cause we, I'll do it until we get a real one.
Yeah.
Um, I think ginger wanted to play the guitar.
I think he wanted to write songs.
I think he wants to write the lyrics, but I don't think he was like, yeah, I'll, I want
to be the, the singer.
Yeah.
I've, I've not got a good enough voice for it.
Hmm.
And then almost became.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Like James Hetfield with Metallica.
Yeah.
Um, you know, I think, uh, ginger, ginger kind of became, did that role.
Hmm.
Um, but, but initially wasn't.
That wasn't what he wanted to do, wasn't it?
Yeah.
He didn't feel comfortable or confident being the front man.
It's quite vulnerable.
Yeah.
You put your heart up your sleeve a little bit, aren't you?
Yeah.
Um, and maybe I, and it's interesting is that there, there are some, um, I don't
know, like, like Luke Spiller from the Struts.
Yeah.
But I don't think I've ever seen a more natural front man in my entire life.
There's somebody who like, he was born like Freddie Mercury.
He was like, you know, meatloaf.
These people were just born to be front men.
Mick Jagger.
Hmm.
Do you know what I mean?
You can't imagine them doing anything other than being a front man for a rock and roll band.
Yeah.
That's kind of what they were born to do.
Um, and you don't think, I can't imagine there was any point where like Mick Jagger was
like, oh no, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not quite out for being the front man.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
It's just, no, this is me and I've got my pink jacket on.
I'm going to be the, I'm going to be the daddy.
Yeah.
Um, and, and it's interesting.
I think there's a certain like vulnerability, but also like an authenticity.
Yeah.
That you get from, from Ginger where it's, you know, do you know what I mean?
It's, I know he's written the songs and they're kind of his songs.
So I guess he's the best person to.
Yeah.
Enact them.
Yeah.
But you, you do kind of get this, this thing where you, I don't, I never feel like I'm watching
someone put on a show with a wild hearts.
I feel like I'm watching a band.
You know what I mean?
I feel like I'm watching a band do their thing.
Yeah.
And it's a really, um, that relationship that I, that I have with the wild hearts feels
like really, um, don't know if it, it's, it, it doesn't feel like the band are playing
to a room of people.
It feels like they're playing.
It feels like Ginger's playing to me.
Do you know what I mean?
I feel like he's talking to me.
Yeah.
And, and I don't know.
And like, I, I have seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen Queen play.
I've seen the, um, seen the Rolling Stones play and you don't get that.
They're massive songs and they're incredible.
And they put on these immense shows.
I made and do this while they put on these massive shows.
Yeah.
But I don't get that same feeling where, you know, I feel like Ginger's talking to my, you
know, Ginger's doing TV tan.
Yeah.
He's talking to me.
Do you know what I mean?
That's, that's it.
And, and there's just something really, I don't know, really unique, but there are very few
bands that can do that.
Yeah.
They can't talk to you as a, as an individual.
Yeah.
Hey mister, you got the best answer to a machine message I ever heard.
Drags me around all day, just like a ball on a chain, a tooth pain that I confess.
I'm just a mess.
Do I have to take this shit from you every time I look in your way?
Or I say, hey, it's about time.
You show me yours and I'll show you mine.
And I hope you can keep that turn even gritty as a part of your face when you find that you throw to one side.
Cause no one likes a long roller coaster ride.
Cause she's the kind of girl who'll take your heart and leave you feeling worse than you did at the start.
Cause she's a head fuck.
My baby is a head fuck.
In a bargin' age engaged in the passion triple final score.
Was a quad just to make her worthwhile.
All the patience and a waste of time.
All the patience and the waste of time.
But it seems to take the play to my take her to a movie scene.
where the aim is to get the best line.
Crashin' heads for the second time.
Cause she's the kind of girl who'll break your mind.
I make an easy meal at the sense of time.
Cause she's a head fuck.
My baby is a head fuck.
Oh!
I make an easy meal at the time.
I enjoyed that.
I really liked the album.
It's been a real pleasure to come and dig into some of this stuff.
I say lesser known stuff, but I think our audience is fairly split.
Looking at our stats, there's a US and UK and 10 people from Russia.
So hi there, if you're from Russia.
Also, while I'm talking about stats, I logged on to our Apple podcast stats and Spotify stats.
And apparently only 23% of people that listen to the show are subscribed or followers.
So if that's you and you've, especially if you've got this far and you're still with it.
Yeah, and you listen to a few episodes.
Do the subscribe.
Do the thing.
Do the stars.
Do click the stars.
Tell us we're good.
Anything less than five stars.
You don't need to do the stars.
No, that's what Matt Armstrong, Matt Armstrong, do subscribing.
Yeah, subscribe stars and then say, just word of mouth.
Riffology, best podcast ever.
Like and subscribe.
Yeah.
It helps the show.
It helps the channel.
That's what the YouTube is.
Hi guys.
It helps the channel.
I don't know.
How does liking a channel help?
I don't understand.
No.
We've not got a million followers.
Yeah.
Do it then.
Do it now while we watch.
Yeah.
We're watching.
Do it right now.
Do the like and subscribe.
And to be, to be fair, I'm sure it does help.
Yeah.
I've no idea how.
No.
Maybe it will show it to more people.
Maybe if you, just you, you, you right now.
Do the like.
We're talking to you.
Subscribe.
Yeah.
If you click the little star thing.
Text your mate.
Say, you should listen to this.
You like music.
We're brilliant.
And everyone likes the wild hearts.
Yeah.
I'm reminded to someone, you know, in America.
Yeah.
Yes.
I say, well, that's what we said.
You should have had this.
Yeah.
You didn't get this.
So we had it.
Blink 182.
I saw Blink 182 and Frank Turner.
Yeah.
That was a good gig, actually.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was a really, really good gig.
And I tripped Frank Turner up.
Sorry, Frank.
Yes.
So was Frank.
Well, I was in there.
It was dark.
People don't realize.
I mean, you'll know this at gigs and stuff.
When gigs are happening, it's really dark.
The other thing I do is I'm giving away a secret here.
Oh, yeah.
I can't see if I'm not wearing my glasses.
Yeah.
But I don't look particularly rock and roll with my glasses on.
Oh, so you've got no idea what's going on.
No, I haven't got a clue.
I always wondered when I'd be there in the front row of riding the low gigs, like taking photographs
of you.
Yeah.
And you'd be like, like Dan would always see me and he would always come over there and
he would always play.
I mean, you'd be like looking over like it didn't exist.
And it's because you can't see.
Can't see.
I haven't got a clue.
Can't see anything.
I have to write my own set list.
Just in really big.
In big.
Oh my God.
Like a single word.
Big.
Oh.
And that's how that works.
God.
Yeah.
So as well as dark.
Yeah.
Like poor eyesight as well.
Can't see.
Is it worth.
And I can't believe I'm bringing this up because I know you're going to make fun of me,
but my labeling of my tea.
Oh yes.
Yeah.
And this is the gestalt thing again.
Yes.
Because we said about this earlier.
And if we did, if we don't cover it.
Yeah.
That means the universe.
It's unbalanced.
Yeah.
Can't have that.
So we need to talk about Empress Grey.
It's like a TIE fighter dies somewhere.
Is that something to do with that?
So.
Yeah.
So I, my favorite tea.
We've talked about this in the past.
Can we just retell the story?
Because there'll be people that don't know the story.
About.
About Lady Grey.
Oh God.
Lady Grey.
The Lady Grey tea story.
It's a brilliant story.
So the Lady Grey thing came from.
Do you remember Katie Day?
She.
Katie used to come to the photography club that I ran.
Oh yeah.
She's brilliant.
She's an artist more than a photographer.
She takes.
She took photographs to paint.
Yeah.
So she used to come to there to learn how to take photographs.
And then.
She then used to paint them.
And that's how I kind of.
I'd known her.
Since we were at college.
But we.
I hadn't seen her for about 10 years.
And she just turned up.
She once brought.
Um.
Lady Grey.
Mm.
Teabags to her.
To her.
Photography.
Yeah.
Do you ever see.
This is nice.
Nice.
So let's.
So Earl Grey.
Cause I know Earl Grey.
I don't like it.
It tastes like soap to me.
Earl Grey's got bergamot in it.
Bergamot oil.
Okay.
Uh.
And Lady Grey's got bergamot oil and a little bit of citrus in it.
Right.
So it's a bit sharper.
A bit orange.
Yeah.
Anyway.
I liked that.
It was quite nice.
Yeah.
Um.
Anyway.
Fast forward.
Like a couple of months after that.
And I'd got quite a.
Quite a taste.
It was really tasty.
And then.
We had gone up.
Uh.
Say we.
There was me.
You guys.
Yeah.
Everybody was there.
It was back in the days when we.
So we were all in this.
Stinky van.
It did like.
30 miles an hour.
And we had like.
300 miles.
Yeah.
Me and.
Your auntie.
Yes.
Yeah.
Who were driving.
Which was brilliant.
That was such a good laugh.
Anyway.
So we all did that.
We did.
Did shares of driving.
And it was awful.
The driving of the van.
And.
You guys.
Was it Scotland?
Yeah.
It was.
If you want to look at a map.
We're in the middle.
Scotland's kind of up.
Um.
But it felt like we'd been driving for days.
It was just.
In a van.
It was noisy.
Yeah.
And you know.
You could see the look of.
Of like disappointment on Paddy's face.
Could have flown up here.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Stubbing.
It was fun for the first like.
Four hours.
Yeah.
And then it just wasn't fun anymore.
And anyway.
So we got up there.
And then you guys had played.
Absolutely smashed it.
A really really great gig.
Came back.
You filled the van up.
Headed back down the.
The motorway.
And this was like.
Three in the morning.
Yeah.
That look of like.
Just like.
Can we go home now?
Desolation on people.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
And anyway.
We stopped at a service station.
We go in there.
And you guys shout over.
Oh do you want a drink?
Yeah.
And I said.
We're getting coffees.
Yeah.
Do you want one?
Lady Grady.
And like.
Lost it.
Absolutely.
Lost it.
Just the whole band of that.
And everything.
It's like.
Everybody in the place.
Was just like.
Staring at me.
Like I just.
I don't know.
Like I just got.
My favorite child porn.
Collection.
It's like.
What?
It's just tea.
It's like.
Anyway.
Yeah.
So I've got no credit.
Well I mean.
Not that it.
I'm a.
Math student.
If we were.
If we were more awake.
That would have been the birth of a nickname.
Right there.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
But we were.
We were very tired.
Yeah.
Everyone was too tired for nicknames.
Yeah.
But I mean.
Fast forward to now.
I've now.
I've moved on a little bit.
My friend Adrian.
When we were in the US last time.
He took tea bags with him.
And he took this thing called.
The Empress Grey tea bag.
From Marks and Spencer.
And.
Is it not the most middle class thing ever.
But they're really nice.
I.
They're more citrusy.
So.
Earl Grey tea.
But more.
Just have an orange.
Yeah.
You could just have.
Cup of tea and have an orange.
That's what it.
That's what it feels like actually.
Really.
Really nice.
Yeah.
And.
Anyway.
So.
I like those.
I always have.
I always have some of those in.
And that's what I drink during the day.
Yeah.
I kind of get up.
Do my stuff in the morning.
Throw the family out the house.
Settle down.
You know my computer.
Ready to face the horror of my inbox.
Yeah.
And then.
Obviously.
Marks and Spencer have had.
The Empress.
They've had.
They've had a mild catastrophe.
Oh.
With.
Whole.
Shops and things.
Because you sent me an empty jar.
Didn't you?
Yes.
And I couldn't buy any.
And I've run out.
Mm.
And I went to the.
Marks and Spencer I normally get it from.
Who I haven't gotten on.
Yeah.
And then I went to Burton on Trent.
Which is my least favourite.
Marks and Spencer.
Anyway.
I went into there.
Have you got a spreadsheet?
Yeah.
I don't like that one.
And anyway.
We went in there.
And they're empty shelves.
Yeah.
So I looked on eBay.
And normally.
They're like.
I don't think what.
They're like £1.
Yeah.
80 or something like that.
You know.
And.
And that'll last me about a month.
Yeah.
And.
So I looked on eBay.
And they're like 10 quid.
Oh right.
I don't like that.
No, no, no.
I'm just going to have to do it.
So now I've got a little empty.
Um.
Glass jar that I keep them in.
Yeah.
I made the mistake of sending that to my friend Chris.
And he made fun of me for one.
Um.
Liking Empress Grey tea.
Which is.
Which is totally normal.
Just watch James Bond.
Even M.
Is it M or Q?
I've forgotten.
One of them.
One of them drinks that.
And.
There's.
There's nothing wrong with it.
Probably.
In Ashby.
Where'd you go?
How far did you go to get your own prescriptive?
I like.
I like the one in Ashby.
Anyway.
I like.
So.
There's nothing wrong with it.
But then.
Considered.
You can continue to make fun of me.
Because I.
I've got.
Because you've labelled the glass.
I've got a Dymo label maker.
And I love it.
It's an old fashioned.
Old fashioned.
Like the kind of things you label chemistry jars with.
But I label everything.
I've got a label.
I label plugs.
I do label.
I label everything.
Anything.
If it exists.
It's got a label on it.
It's cool.
I just made fun of me for labelling my job.
Do you put it on your shoes?
Do you put left and right on your shoes?
Shoes.
I just put shoes.
I feel a bit like a.
Like a 1970s chemistry teacher when I'm labelling things.
It just reminds me of the look around you.
Yeah.
You sent me links to look around.
Just really.
I did love that.
Yeah.
But I like labelling things.
I do.
I feel everything should have a label.
Yeah.
Fair play.
A Dymo label.
Yeah.
So many of you that are following along at home.
You'll notice the socials that we do.
Where we do the.
Like abstract.
Oh.
The.
The artwork.
And then ask you to guess what it is.
If you're wondering where I got the.
Idea for the text format on there.
It's my Dymo label.
And I found.
When I was doing it.
I found this amazing Dymo font.
Oh really?
You've got Dymo fonts?
Yeah.
So I downloaded that.
And I really like that.
What are we doing next?
Because we've been doing this a while now.
Oh.
Have we?
Two minutes.
No one's going to get this far.
Are they?
So I think we should stay in Britain.
Yeah.
And I think there's a few things that I think we're going to have to do.
Yeah.
So.
I think we've got to do definitely maybe.
Yeah.
Like.
I don't.
Like.
I've got definitely maybe on.
Off.
Of the vinyl.
Yeah.
And I quite like definitely maybe.
I suppose there is an Oasis thing coming isn't there?
They're doing like a reunion tour thing.
There is.
I.
So I think we're going to have to.
Yeah.
I think.
As much as.
This is kind of like.
Alternative.
Yeah.
Right.
Almost.
And.
I don't know.
But I think we'll finish.
We'll kind of finish where we're going really.
Yeah.
Probably going to do Park Life as well.
Yeah.
And.
I like.
I know those albums.
And I kind of respect those albums.
But they're not albums.
I would.
Definitely.
Maybe I could listen to Park Life a little bit less.
It's a bit.
Yeah.
Although I kind of.
Yeah.
But the story.
There's.
There's some interesting background and stories to both of those records.
So I think we've got to cover them before we kind of leave the UK.
Yeah.
Although I don't.
Like we're finished with.
Like this kind of counterculture stuff.
Yeah.
The other thing about.
About that.
About Blue and Oasis.
Yeah.
In particular.
Is I don't know that much about them.
No.
I know.
Yeah.
No.
Like.
I know.
I know who they are.
And I like their songs.
But I don't know this.
It's some like.
You know.
It's going to be interesting to research the stories.
Yeah.
There's a.
There's a lovely documentary on.
Oasis.
Where it kind of runs through.
It's got.
Supersonic.
Yeah.
I love that.
Because it's got our mate.
Or Pete Darrington.
Pete Darrington.
He was in cable.
Yeah.
And.
They were so unkind to them.
They were.
I can't remember what they called my scruffy turd or something.
Like.
Because they were.
They were recording their record next door.
And Oasis were.
Yeah.
And then.
They refer.
I think they referred to the cable boys as scruffy turds.
So.
It's something abusive.
Anyway.
I like that.
Then there's stories there.
There's other stuff.
Terror Vision.
Yeah.
I need to do.
Um.
And.
I'm trying to think of other stuff.
We need to do Bush.
Yeah.
Here's what I'm thinking.
The flow will be.
Is that we'll do.
Another British one next.
Yeah.
I think probably should we do Terror Vision or Ash.
Yeah.
Then.
I think we'll do.
Should we do a poll.
I can't be bothered.
Do you choose.
I always choose.
You do.
I'll choose Ash.
Ash.
Yeah.
And then we'll do.
Yeah.
And then we'll do Terror Vision.
Yeah.
After that.
And then.
Then I think we'll do.
Obviously if we do one of.
Uh.
Blur or Parklife for me.
It'll be.
Uh.
Blur or Oasis.
It'll be definitely maybe.
Cause I quite like definitely maybe.
Yeah.
Then we'll do Bush.
Yeah.
And then Bush leads us back into the United States.
Okay.
Great.
Where we could then go and do some.
I think that.
That big thick heavy.
American rock would be quite cool to do there.
Yeah.
You know.
There's just such a big.
Pool of stuff.
We've not covered.
Yet there.
Um.
I can be here forever.
Ages doing this.
Yeah.
And then we'll think of something else.
Because.
What we learned.
What you taught me.
Yeah.
Was about time.
It's great.
Because.
When 25 years.
Cause we said.
We're not going back further than 25 years.
Yeah.
If it's not 25 years old.
Yeah.
We can't do it.
We're not doing it.
That's the goal.
Well.
As time goes on.
Yeah.
25 years.
Unlocks more time.
It does.
Yeah.
Well.
Yeah.
I mean.
25 years.
Yeah.
So.
So that's 2020.
Yeah.
Year 2000 is 25 years ago.
Yeah.
As soon as it becomes 2026.
We'll be able to do 2001.
Yes.
That's it.
You got it.
Nailed it.
It's just wicked that is.
Absolutely nailed it.
Because that means we can do this for ages.
Yeah.
We'll be here forever.
But you know one of the things that's interesting.
Is that the.
The number of albums that were released per year.
Just increases and increases.
Yeah.
As you go on.
The number of albums that were released in 1975.
Mm.
Is minuscule compared to the number of albums released in 1985.
And like.
You've definitely got a bar graph of that.
Yeah.
But you.
You can see.
I was.
This is going back about six months.
The Spotify APIs.
Mm.
And you can see it.
It just ramps.
Really.
Yeah.
It's like almost exponential.
It's huge.
Wow.
The number of albums we can cover is just huge.
But there's like the whole new metal scene that we.
Dipped our toe into with corn and stuff.
Yeah.
And how that developed.
You know.
Limp Bizkit and all of that stuff.
Mm.
And a lot of people really don't like that.
But.
Mm.
I don't know.
There's a bit of a resurgence of that I think.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Yeah.
They've got a bit of nostalgia about it.
Yeah.
Certainly a couple of the lads that I know.
They're doing like a band.
Oh yeah.
Like a.
That era.
I guess a hard.
And he gets a hard time.
And again that.
The.
You know the.
That radio friendly us rock.
The kind of.
Black album load and reload.
Yeah.
Risk.
Yeah.
From Megadeth.
You know.
And even South of Heaven and.
Seasons in the Abyss.
The.
From Slayer get a.
A bad rep.
Because they're not fast.
They're not hard.
Do you know what I mean?
They were.
Yeah.
And the thing is I love the.
Like there's that era of.
Mid-90s.
Offspring.
Green Day.
You know.
Yeah.
That would be a really cool one.
I loved all that.
To dig into that.
Yeah.
It was really cool.
Like Everclear.
Yeah.
I love the Eels.
The Eels.
I mean it's not particularly heavy.
Yeah.
The Eels.
Electroshock Blues is just such an incredible album.
Yeah.
But then while we're over here actually.
If we talk about.
Rockfield and Wales.
Yeah.
We could do that.
Yeah.
We might.
We might need to.
Um.
Yeah.
We might need to.
I think that the desk from that album.
Where it gets around.
Yeah.
I believe that lives in Nottingham now.
Does it?
Yeah.
I think they bought.
Confetti.
Oh wow.
I think.
Yeah.
I do think we've got to fit a Stereophonics record in.
Yeah.
At some point.
So.
Let's see where we get to.
But let's do Ash next.
Ash.
Then Terror Vision.
Yeah.
Then we'll figure out what's next.
We've got to do definitely maybe.
Yeah.
At some point.
Yeah.
Um.
Maybe we'll do that when it's that tour thing.
That'd be a good time to do that.
Yeah.
I just.
Fits into the store.
Where we are at the minute.
It kind of fits in that.
In that story of what was happening.
Oasis were the biggest band on the planet.
Yeah.
For that period of time.
Yeah.
They were the biggest band on the planet by.
I mean.
By.